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Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S.
- Thread starter Bronson
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
Next time is guaranteed to occur, after all, that union got "deserved help", so the precedent is established. Yes they can!
Next time is guaranteed to occur, after all, that union got "deserved help", so the precedent is established. Yes they can!
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
Is it worth noting they got a profit from bailing out the bankers?
shrug
Is it worth noting they got a profit from bailing out the bankers?
shrug
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
How much tax revenue was generated by the company continuing to operate?
How much tax revenue was generated by the company continuing to operate?
PerfectStorm
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
Just because they declare bankruptcy doesn't mean they cease to operate.
Just because they declare bankruptcy doesn't mean they cease to operate.
pbrauer
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
And if they were no longer operating, those workers would have received unemployment insurance/welfare.
That's true but without the right management team and plan they would have ceased to operate.
And if they were no longer operating, those workers would have received unemployment insurance/welfare.
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
How much money was saved by unspent unemployment by keeping the supply chains working?
How many jobs were saved by keeping supplier firms going?
How much taxes from all this activity was saved?
You know that Bronson won't discuss those. Ever.
How much money was saved by unspent unemployment by keeping the supply chains working?
How many jobs were saved by keeping supplier firms going?
How much taxes from all this activity was saved?
You know that Bronson won't discuss those. Ever.
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
Considering their cash burn rates (as well as the burn rates of their suppliers), not much longer.
Considering their cash burn rates (as well as the burn rates of their suppliers), not much longer.
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
On a related note, anyone seen the spy picks of the new corvette?
It's gonna be AWESOME, though I HATE that they ditched the round tail lights...
On a related note, anyone seen the spy picks of the new corvette?
It's gonna be AWESOME, though I HATE that they ditched the round tail lights...
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
More importantly they totally ruined your claims that this is some sort of socialist plot for the government to own car manufacturing and puts it firmly into the area of the dems saved GM and then gave it back as intended. I can see why that would bug you. Technically the whole point of the bailout was to use the government to bear the burden of GMs collapse at a cost. So we get some of our money back, and the government puts some money back in that it can use to pay off some of it's loans.
If you want to argue whether or not the plan could have been done better by letting GM fail and all those workers hit the workforce at it's lower levels and come up with some way that would have been better for the US at the time then please do. However, this seems to be the intent of the bailouts, and the US was going to take some of the losses onto itself to keep americans employed at one of the worst times to have GM go away. The alternative was to let GM fail and hope that an american automaker came in instead of foreign automakers to pick up the slack and create a new american car manufacturer. Could that have been done with a number of foreign automakers read to capitalize on the vaccume created by the loss of GM which would have shifted more jobs overseas, and more money overseas. Then could that new automaker have reached GM employment levels in 4 years to offset the layoffs in the US. All that time we would have been paying unemployment, losing tax revenue, and possibly strengthening countries like China's manufacturing centers if we let GM go bankrupt. Instead we had all those people employed which kept tax money coming in and kept a few major US car brands in the market.
It seems to me that if you figured out the revenue losses and increase in recession that would have come from the right's plan to bail on GM and the american worker you would see that these losses are not even close to the overwhelming damage and expense of letting GM fail. I would have to say unlike AIG this was a great decision on Obama's part and now that he is releasing control back to GM we have no paranoid fears of GM being taken over for socialism.
Seems like always you are shortsighted and wrong. But don't let me stop there, why don't i do the math on unemployment for the layoffs.
Gm employs 120,000 people. That is not including all parts manufacturers, dealers, and mechanics that would have also suffered layoffs without GM.
Let us say 40k average salary. This is low considering how much the execs make, but I am going to help bronson out by undershooting.
Unemployment benefits would be half or more, so we will call it half.
120,000 people * 20000 * 1.5 years of unemployment = 3.6 billion dollars of unemployment payments alone the US saved.
Now remember, i was shooting low there, and that also does not include loss of tax revenue from those people who are employed, and the loss of tax revenue from car sales. It also does not cover the possible foreign dominance of the auto industry that would have come from america's largest car manufacturer going away. So considering that we lost 5.5 billion on the shares, but kept that revenue coming in, and avoided 3.6 billion in unemployment payments alone. this was a pretty good deal, but feel free to show us the numbers you have for the collapse of GM, or just chime in with the random right wing dodge you always do.
What will it be, perhaps an insult? Or maybe you will shout at Obama? really, the only question here is in what way will the republicans avoid any actual proof of their claims that this is supposedly worse than the alternative.
More importantly they totally ruined your claims that this is some sort of socialist plot for the government to own car manufacturing and puts it firmly into the area of the dems saved GM and then gave it back as intended. I can see why that would bug you. Technically the whole point of the bailout was to use the government to bear the burden of GMs collapse at a cost. So we get some of our money back, and the government puts some money back in that it can use to pay off some of it's loans.
If you want to argue whether or not the plan could have been done better by letting GM fail and all those workers hit the workforce at it's lower levels and come up with some way that would have been better for the US at the time then please do. However, this seems to be the intent of the bailouts, and the US was going to take some of the losses onto itself to keep americans employed at one of the worst times to have GM go away. The alternative was to let GM fail and hope that an american automaker came in instead of foreign automakers to pick up the slack and create a new american car manufacturer. Could that have been done with a number of foreign automakers read to capitalize on the vaccume created by the loss of GM which would have shifted more jobs overseas, and more money overseas. Then could that new automaker have reached GM employment levels in 4 years to offset the layoffs in the US. All that time we would have been paying unemployment, losing tax revenue, and possibly strengthening countries like China's manufacturing centers if we let GM go bankrupt. Instead we had all those people employed which kept tax money coming in and kept a few major US car brands in the market.
It seems to me that if you figured out the revenue losses and increase in recession that would have come from the right's plan to bail on GM and the american worker you would see that these losses are not even close to the overwhelming damage and expense of letting GM fail. I would have to say unlike AIG this was a great decision on Obama's part and now that he is releasing control back to GM we have no paranoid fears of GM being taken over for socialism.
Seems like always you are shortsighted and wrong. But don't let me stop there, why don't i do the math on unemployment for the layoffs.
Gm employs 120,000 people. That is not including all parts manufacturers, dealers, and mechanics that would have also suffered layoffs without GM.
Let us say 40k average salary. This is low considering how much the execs make, but I am going to help bronson out by undershooting.
Unemployment benefits would be half or more, so we will call it half.
120,000 people * 20000 * 1.5 years of unemployment = 3.6 billion dollars of unemployment payments alone the US saved.
Now remember, i was shooting low there, and that also does not include loss of tax revenue from those people who are employed, and the loss of tax revenue from car sales. It also does not cover the possible foreign dominance of the auto industry that would have come from america's largest car manufacturer going away. So considering that we lost 5.5 billion on the shares, but kept that revenue coming in, and avoided 3.6 billion in unemployment payments alone. this was a pretty good deal, but feel free to show us the numbers you have for the collapse of GM, or just chime in with the random right wing dodge you always do.
What will it be, perhaps an insult? Or maybe you will shout at Obama? really, the only question here is in what way will the republicans avoid any actual proof of their claims that this is supposedly worse than the alternative.
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Re: Treasury announces GM exit strategy; automaker buying 200 million shares from U.S
Really, the largest advantage will be that the government will be out of the board of a privately owned enterprise and thats as it should be.
Im really hoping they have learned their lesson and reorganized in a way that they wont need another bailout ever again. Im not holding my breath.
Really, the largest advantage will be that the government will be out of the board of a privately owned enterprise and thats as it should be.
Im really hoping they have learned their lesson and reorganized in a way that they wont need another bailout ever again. Im not holding my breath.