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Thread: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    Because you remove one drivers right to drive doesn't mean all drivers lose their right to drive.
    Poor comment that shows you didn't get the point I was making. There is no line that can be drawn between the WBC and many other churches that doesn't involve mere disgust. Given the context, removing their tax status is obvious viewpoint discrimination. Contrary to the misunderstanding by some here, the government cannot treat one church differently in this area simply because it considers its views "hateful". People are blurring different concepts together.

    As for it not even being a church, it easily meets the very minimal criteria. There may be a good argument that the rules should be changed, but it is not right to interpret them differently in the case of one specific group. That is what people seem to be hoping happens here with the IRS. I hope public pressure loses and the petitions don't succeed.
    Last edited by RepublicanMcDuc; 12-18-12 at 03:21 PM.

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by RepublicanMcDuc View Post
    Poor comment that shows you didn't get the point I was making. There is no line that can be drawn between the WBC and many other churches that doesn't involve mere disgust. Given the context, removing their tax status is obvious viewpoint discrimination. Contrary to the misunderstanding by some here, the government cannot treat one church differently in this area simply because it considers its views "hateful". People are blurring different concepts together.

    As for it not even being a church, it easily meets the very minimal criteria. There may be a good argument that the rules should be changed, but it is not right to interpret them differently in the case of one specific group. That is what people seem to be hoping happens here with the IRS. I hope public pressure loses and the petitions don't succeed.
    I got your point but the tax exempt status can be removed if the church does not adhear to the rules and regulations to have such status.

    Nobody knows if they comply or not.

    The petition is to ask the IRS to find out.

    Why can that be a bad thing?

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How so? Is a protest considered "conducting itself", cause lots of churches protest in public. Sometimes they can put displays up in public. Often times some variant of them will preach in public. Would this not essentially mean that no church should have tax-exempt status?
    Let me work this out a bit more. A church has grounds...a place of worship. Whatever happens inside those doors...fine. They can say what they want, believe want, vote together...don't care.

    Once the congregation (by order of the church...hard to prove) moves outside of those grounds, and then uses public property to protest on, that is where I believe the line is.

    As far as displays in public, they should be allowed on church grounds, private property, or due to a permit with the town.

    That is how I see the beginning of this idea.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Let me work this out a bit more. A church has grounds...a place of worship. Whatever happens inside those doors...fine. They can say what they want, believe want, vote together...don't care.

    Once the congregation (by order of the church...hard to prove) moves outside of those grounds, and then uses public property to protest on, that is where I believe the line is.

    As far as displays in public, they should be allowed on church grounds, private property, or due to a permit with the town.

    That is how I see the beginning of this idea.
    So....religion is ok so long as it stays indoors?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So....religion is ok so long as it stays indoors?
    Stays on church or private property.

    This is for the tax-exempt purpose.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I got your point but the tax exempt status can be removed if the church does not adhear to the rules and regulations to have such status.

    Nobody knows if they comply or not.

    The petition is to ask the IRS to find out.

    Why can that be a bad thing?
    It seems there are multiple petitions. One of the ones making the headlines quite clearly calls for their status to be revoked: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...group/tNVz4V7Q. Others say investigate, but the reasons given are flimsy.

    The broader point though is that there is no reason for any of these petitions except disagreement with their views.

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Stays on church or private property.

    This is for the tax-exempt purpose.
    Don't like it. STFU, stay in doors; government will reward you. Exercise your right to expression, assembly, association, and/or protest; government will punish you.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Don't like it. STFU, stay in doors; government will reward you. Exercise your right to expression, assembly, association, and/or protest; government will punish you.
    With the whole seperation of church and state, why should a church be allowed to use public resources if it isn't paying taxes? Currently, at some level they already are.

    No one said stay indoors, just stay off public property.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    With the whole seperation of church and state, why should a church be allowed to use public resources if it isn't paying taxes? Currently, at some level they already are.

    No one said stay indoors, just stay off public property.
    ....

    Public is public, that's all there is to it. You're trying to gain a government lever over religion and expression here. Either Churches are tax exempt, or they are not. There's no in between. This cannot be used as a dynamic through which government force is brought down upon those exercising rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    ....

    Public is public, that's all there is to it. You're trying to gain a government lever over religion and expression here. Either Churches are tax exempt, or they are not. There's no in between. This cannot be used as a dynamic through which government force is brought down upon those exercising rights.
    But church and state are separate. If your church violates that line, then it should lose its tax exemption.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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