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Thread: Actor Renounces His Citizenship in Snit Over French Tax Burden

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    Re: Actor Renounces His Citizenship in Snit Over French Tax Burden

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    What is a pseudo-socialist/pseudo-capitalist economic model? I never heard of such a thing.
    It a philosophy that fits somewhere next to Romney taking New York in the 2012 election.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Actor Renounces His Citizenship in Snit Over French Tax Burden

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The upper tax rate before Hollande was 41% for incomes above 70k. The new taxes are 45% on incomes over 150k... so in fact many people get a freaking tax CUT!
    And? We already know he cut taxes for low incomes and increased it a lot for high incomes. To pay for the tax increase for the rich and the tax cut for the not so rich. He increased general taxes. I am just pointing out that the tax increase for the rich will cause problems, because you need to have rich people investing in your country.

    And yes social security tax is "high"..... it is 8%. Everyone pays this regardless of income.... even the rich ironically since investments are taxed by 12.1%... which is brilliant.
    Social Security is not 8%. Please don't pull numbers out of your ass. The tax for hiring is crazy high, read here French Social Security: Employer Contributions

    And for the self employed it is still very high, 45%. French Social Security Contributions: Self Employed Persons


    As I stated before, I think the 75% tax rate is idiotic and pure PR. As for wealthy people leaving and not being able to live off 1 million euro.. considering they are not paying 75% taxes on the 999999 then I doubt they will have any problems. Remember the tax is for payroll incomes over 1 million euros.. and most wealthy dont get payroll income over 1 million euros... they get capital gains or stocks... which is taxed at a much lower tax rate.
    Can you give me an estimation of how many times I have to write, it has nothing to do with what they can live off, before you understand that I don't talk about what they can live off. If you just want to live a luxurious life, just stop investing and live off your saved money, but that pisses you off too. Rich people want to earn more money, and that will be hard in France with such high taxes.

    Fact is the biggest misconceptions are being promoted by people like you for partisan political reasons and the actual facts are glossed over as irrelevant.. and that is pathetic.
    Ehm... you were the one who pretended social security in France is 8%. First get your own facts straight, or else you have no credibility.


    More bull****. Investment in a country is rarely dependent on taxes of said country.. it is a myth. If so, then all investment would have stopped in Scandinavia.. and in fact that is the booming part of the industrialized world.
    If you knew anything about Scandinavia, you would know that Scandinavia does not have 75% tax rate on incomes pluss a massive social security tax. Taxes on high incomes is around 60% and that includes all kinds of taxes. You are confusing between results and policy. Scandinavia has the best social democratic results, but they are not the most left wing countries.

    Yes, people from other countries can invest in France, but they do not know the french market and they are not interested in creating jobs in France. Hence big investment companies will only create low paying jobs in France, which will not benefit France very much.


    Hogwash. The rich/corporations will always have ways of avoiding taxes as long as we have the tax systems we do now, and as long as both the left and the right dont do anything about tax evasion. I will not cry one tear about a multi-millionaire who boo hoo pays lower % tax rate than the rest of the population because he gets most of his taxable income from capital gains. And as it is, the "rich" rarely invest in anything that is job creating.. they are sitting on their wealth and let the banks (who also suck) do the investing and demand bail-outs when the banks loose their wealth.
    If they can get all these deductions, and hence the system kind of works for some rich people. Wouldn't a better idea be to reduce these deductions, but also reduce rates? Also, how exactly does a bank invest the money. I do not consider buying bonds from government to be a proper investment, at least not a job creating one. It is a form of welfare to the government.

    I am talking about investment that creates jobs, and only rich people or soon to become rich people do that. They are sitting on their wealth yes. Have you ever thought about asking why? Maybe it is because it is better to sit on your wealth than to invest in a country that discourages investment?

    You can deny reality, but you can not avoid the consequences of denying the reality. That is the current problem in the EU.
    Last edited by Camlon; 01-03-13 at 11:10 PM.

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    Re: Actor Renounces His Citizenship in Snit Over French Tax Burden

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Social Security is not 8%. Please don't pull numbers out of your ass. The tax for hiring is crazy high, read here French Social Security: Employer Contributions

    And for the self employed it is still very high, 45%. French Social Security Contributions: Self Employed Persons
    The French social security system - Summary of rates and ceilings of Social Security and unemployment contributions

    You will notice the numbers are no where near what you claim and much closer to what I claim. In fact I was in error.. my 8% was only for pensions... social security is lower.

    Can you give me an estimation of how many times I have to write, it has nothing to do with what they can live off, before you understand that I don't talk about what they can live off. If you just want to live a luxurious life, just stop investing and live off your saved money, but that pisses you off too. Rich people want to earn more money, and that will be hard in France with such high taxes.
    And how many times do I have to point out... it is all about how much you have to live off.. it is the whole idea behind a progressive tax system. The burden is shifted to those that can afford it better. People could give a rats ass about how much a guy earning a million a year has left over to live off.. because they know he will have many many times more than they will have.

    Ehm... you were the one who pretended social security in France is 8%. First get your own facts straight, or else you have no credibility.
    Social security is under 8%. Check my link.

    If you knew anything about Scandinavia, you would know that Scandinavia does not have 75% tax rate on incomes pluss a massive social security tax. Taxes on high incomes is around 60% and that includes all kinds of taxes. You are confusing between results and policy. Scandinavia has the best social democratic results, but they are not the most left wing countries.
    I come from Scandinavia, so I know very well what the tax burden is there. No we dont have a 75% tax rate, but we do have an almost 60% tax rate on incomes over a certain amount. On top of that we have 20+% VAT, environmental taxes and so on and so on.

    Yes, people from other countries can invest in France, but they do not know the french market and they are not interested in creating jobs in France. Hence big investment companies will only create low paying jobs in France, which will not benefit France very much.
    Reason people dont invest in France is its labour laws, not its taxes. Denmark has plenty of international investment and our taxes are high... but our labour laws are some of the best on the planet and even more "free" than for example the US.

    If they can get all these deductions, and hence the system kind of works for some rich people. Wouldn't a better idea be to reduce these deductions, but also reduce rates? Also, how exactly does a bank invest the money. I do not consider buying bonds from government to be a proper investment, at least not a job creating one. It is a form of welfare to the government.
    In the long term yes. In the short term, there is a lot of deficit and debt that needs to be paid back because of these deductions and loopholes and of course the costs of the crisis created by the wealthy banks.

    I am talking about investment that creates jobs, and only rich people or soon to become rich people do that. They are sitting on their wealth yes. Have you ever thought about asking why? Maybe it is because it is better to sit on your wealth than to invest in a country that discourages investment?
    So why is there not massive investment in countries that does not discourage investment? Places like the US.. the rich there have the lowest tax rates ever and that according to you should mean they are investing massively and unemployment should be near zero..

    You can deny reality, but you can not avoid the consequences of denying the reality. That is the current problem in the EU.
    Only one denying reality is you and your comrades that give the wealthy and corporations a free ride while putting the burden on the poor and middle class.

    And in the end it is all irrelevant.. since Depardieu is now a Russian citizen, and has to have a workpermit and visa to even stay in the EU.. and that can easily be revoked.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Actor Renounces His Citizenship in Snit Over French Tax Burden

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The French social security system - Summary of rates and ceilings of Social Security and unemployment contributions

    You will notice the numbers are no where near what you claim and much closer to what I claim. In fact I was in error.. my 8% was only for pensions... social security is lower.
    Read your own link. The numbers you provided are no where close to 8%. And sorry pensions are part of social security. But for rich people they do not matter because of the cap. You need to add them together which will give me 9% on the employee side, and about 21% on the employer side. That is 30% for very rich people and much higher for the not so rich. Also, thanks for the link. Now I have an accurate figure for French social security for the very rich, which is 30%.

    And why exactly should we not include the pension? The pension is not a private program. The government is using the pension to pay down their debts.

    And how many times do I have to point out... it is all about how much you have to live off.. it is the whole idea behind a progressive tax system. The burden is shifted to those that can afford it better. People could give a rats ass about how much a guy earning a million a year has left over to live off.. because they know he will have many many times more than they will have.
    I give rat ass about how much the rich have left over to live on. But that doesn't mean a 90% tax rate would be favorable. It has nothing to do with what rich people can live off, because no one feels bad that a rich person can only have 500K euro instead of 1500K euro. That is only a strawman from intellectually challenged liberals.

    What is about is the country. If taxes are too high, then rich people will choose to reside somewhere else or invest their money differently. That means less tax income and less investment as many rich people tend to invest more in their home country. It is easier to understand and follow up your business.

    Social security is under 8%. Check my link.
    No it isn't, and your own link disagrees with you.

    I come from Scandinavia, so I know very well what the tax burden is there. No we dont have a 75% tax rate, but we do have an almost 60% tax rate on incomes over a certain amount. On top of that we have 20+% VAT, environmental taxes and so on and so on.
    That is still much lower than France. Yes taxes may be about 55% and there is a 25% GST. But the 25% GST doesn't matter because they are spending all their income. However in France the taxes are 85%. I much rather keep 45% of my income, than to keep 15% of my income. In Scandinavia you can keep 3 times as much of your income.

    Reason people dont invest in France is its labour laws, not its taxes. Denmark has plenty of international investment and our taxes are high... but our labour laws are some of the best on the planet and even more "free" than for example the US.
    There are different kinds of investment. International investment in France is low due to labour laws, and high costs of employees due to taxes.

    But domestic investment which is more important than international investmen are also low because of labour laws and taxes. What is the point of creating your own business if it is nearly impossible to earn money? Hence business creation in France is extremely low and France is stagnating.

    So why is there not massive investment in countries that does not discourage investment? Places like the US.. the rich there have the lowest tax rates ever and that according to you should mean they are investing massively and unemployment should be near zero..
    What makes you think US is a nirvana for investment. US is only good place to invest for big companies. For small companies US sucks because of the court system. A big company can screw you over, and you have no hope winning in court, because it is too expensive and takes too much time. Also, big companies get tax breaks from the government which gives them an unfair advantage.

    However, US is doing better than Europe. US unemployment has gone from 10% in early 2010 to 7.7%. EU in the same period went from 9.7% to 10.7%. US has created 5 million jobs in that period, EU is losing jobs.


    Only one denying reality is you and your comrades that give the wealthy and corporations a free ride while putting the burden on the poor and middle class.

    And in the end it is all irrelevant.. since Depardieu is now a Russian citizen, and has to have a workpermit and visa to even stay in the EU.. and that can easily be revoked.
    Except my kind of policies is working much better for the middle class and the poor than your kind of policies in Europe. I am not giving the wealthy and the corporations a free ride, but instead of fighting against them and making yourself poor in the process, I am using them to our advantage. You can't fight against the markets when there are fundemental reasons for your polcies not working. A max price on goods do not lead to low prices, but shortages. Pushing the wages up higher than the market do not lead to higher wages, but higher unemployment and inflation. If it is only done in the government sector it will lead to uncontrollable deficits.

    Look at how Australia is doing compared to Europe. Australia's policies are very similar to mine, except I want more state driven investment like in Asia. And I truly believe that the middle class and even the poor are doing much better in Australia than in France.

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