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Thread: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

  1. #81
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so you want honest people to be disarmed

    what will you do to people like me who won't give up our guns
    Oh yes, and I forgot. I would put immense manpower into the smuggling of illegal arms. There would be checkpoints, random checks.. We already have these actually to catch drivers under the influence. I would just expand this to not only check for drivers under the influence, but for illegal weapons.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    but I want to have the same stuff the criminals have and I do

    your solution
    If the criminals don't have a gun, then will you also not have a gun?
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Oh yes, and I forgot. I would put immense manpower into the smuggling of illegal arms. There would be checkpoints, random checks.. We already have these actually to catch drivers under the influence. I would just expand this to not only check for drivers under the influence, but for illegal weapons.
    OK so you want a fascist state.

    I think you are merely trying to bait now

    and btw-if you want to ruin the lives of people who owned guns but are now criminals it seems fair that if it comes to that, they make exterminating those who created such a fascist state their first priority

    in other words, if you want to have the government oppress, jail and perhaps kill people for merely owning the same guns our tax dollars supply cops with, and that sort of nastiness happens, you have now become a priority target for those who are being oppressed

  4. #84
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    If the criminals don't have a gun, then will you also not have a gun?

    are you really so naive to think your idiotic schemes are going to disarm hard core criminals. ever heard of the war on drugs?

  5. #85
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    OK so you want a fascist state.
    Fascist state, wait wait.... let me look up the definition of a fascist state...

    Fascist state - is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism.[1][2] Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that seeks the mass mobilization of the national community through discipline, indoctrination, and physical training.[3][4] Fascism utilizes a vanguard party to initiate a revolution to organize the nation upon fascist principles.[5] The fascist party and state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the party, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascism views direct action including political violence and war, as a means to achieve national rejuvenation, spirit and vitality
    I don't see how banning guns is at all related to a fascist state. Please explain the correlation to me because I don't see it based on the definition above. Then we can debate that if you like.


    I think you are merely trying to bait now
    No sir, I am debating. So far no one has been able to come up with answers to simple questions as to how guns from major manufacturers are ending up in the hands of criminals outside of my conclusion that they are being retrieved from legal owners at some point.

    and btw-if you want to ruin the lives of people who owned guns but are now criminals it seems fair that if it comes to that, they make exterminating those who created such a fascist state their first priority

    in other words, if you want to have the government oppress, jail and perhaps kill people for merely owning the same guns our tax dollars supply cops with, and that sort of nastiness happens, you have now become a priority target for those who are being oppressed
    Did I say we should kill all gun owners.. where did I say this, please point this out to me?
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    are you really so naive to think your idiotic schemes are going to disarm hard core criminals. ever heard of the war on drugs?
    Oh lord, here we go again. As I have said a few times already, the war on drugs is a completely different issues with completely different circumstances and would require a completely different strategy than stopping the illegal gun trade.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Oh lord, here we go again. As I have said a few times already, the war on drugs is a completely different issues with completely different circumstances and would require a completely different strategy than stopping the illegal gun trade.
    yeah its far easier to stop stuff that has no legitimate use and is used up rather than a gun which lasts for a century and is constantly being bought and supplied to cops, military etc

    and yes your scheme is moronic and silly

    you have no intention in stopping crime, you are just afraid of guns and don't like the politics of gun owners

  8. #88
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Deterence.. hahaha.. Well, if we are one dimensional thinkers, maybe. However, some of us can think beyond and rationalize the situation. Yes, you are safer in an ARMED society by being armed. However, if guns were not so easily available, it begs to question weather many of these instances would have taken place to begin with. If there were no one there with a gun, you would not need to defend yourself against it. Simple logic... All guns start out being sold legally to someone or some organization. It is what happens after that, that causes the problems. So the only way to control that, is to very tightly control, or ban guns. Those who obtain guns illegally, obtain them from someone who got them legally at some point.
    So we should add a war on guns to the war on drugs, the war on terror and the war on poverty? Starting with a Constitutional amendment, something like the 18th amendment that made alcohol illegal nationwide. Perhaps you can use the "success" of the war on drugs to see how that would likely work out, if not then see the 21st amendment. Does it not seem strange to you that although nobody legally makes heroine in the US that it, none the less, exists in ready supply and supports a large criminal element? Banning something does not make it disappear, as the prohibition of alcohol proved.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  9. #89
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah its far easier to stop stuff that has no legitimate use and is used up rather than a gun which lasts for a century and is constantly being bought and supplied to cops, military etc

    and yes your scheme is moronic and silly

    you have no intention in stopping crime, you are just afraid of guns and don't like the politics of gun owners
    The cops and the military are the only ones that should own guns. And their should be very very strict use of them by police. Banning guns will not stop crime. I am not an idealist in the thought that banning guns will stop crime. There will still be crime, and there will still be shootings. As you said, you will never be able to completely ban firearms. However, by reducing ease of access, crimes involving firearms will be VASTLY reduced. Just as crime in countries where firearms are banned is VASTLY lower than the US. The availability of guns in the US makes it easy for any criminal to get one, that is the issue.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  10. #90
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So we should add a war on guns to the war on drugs, the war on terror and the war on poverty? Starting with a Constitutional amendment, something like the 18th amendment that made alcohol illegal nationwide. Perhaps you can use the "success" of the war on drugs to see how that would likely work out, if not then see the 21st amendment. Does it not seem strange to you that although nobody legally makes heroine in the US that it, none the less, exists in ready supply and supports a large criminal element? Banning something does not make it disappear, as the prohibition of alcohol proved.
    Actually, i think we should decriminalize drugs and fight it with intensive drug rehab. I would still require cops to arrest those who are found with drugs, but instead of sending them to a prison and having that show up as a crime, they would be sentenced to mandatory rehab.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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