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Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

Again, drugs are not even close to the same issue. And no, bad guys will not always have arms. The number of bad guys that have arms is directly cooralated to how easy it is to get them. When nearly 1 in 4 people in the states own a gun, there is probably a good chance a bad guy is going to get ahold of a weapon. In places like china, japan and many other countries, weapons are not easily available. Which is why crimes are committed less often and with less lethal weapons. The proof is easily searchable. Crime rates in countries that ban guns is significantly lower than the US (not including countries that are at war).

you have been wrong on just about every issue you have babbled on about concerning guns.

mexico has strict gun control laws

Columbia too-I know I have competed in both countries as a SHOOTER


cities that BAN guns have higher gun crime rates than NEARBY areas that do not


so tell us just what laws do you want imposed in the USA
 
to Capster78:

This would have taken you 1 second to look up before posting that clap trap you tried....



google is your friend.

Did I ever say that most criminals steal their guns from legal owners. No! Most criminals buy their guns thru a criminal network which, at some point, bough the gun from a source that obtained it legally. It is a logical conclusion, unless you want to start investigating gun makers and charging them with the sale of guns to criminals.
 
you have been wrong on just about every issue you have babbled on about concerning guns.

mexico has strict gun control laws

Columbia too-I know I have competed in both countries as a SHOOTER


cities that BAN guns have higher gun crime rates than NEARBY areas that do not


so tell us just what laws do you want imposed in the USA

Yes, you are right. The mexican drug cartels many times will trade drugs for weapons from the US. WHICH AT SOME POINT ARE OBTAINED LEGALLY!!!!
 
you have been wrong on just about every issue you have babbled on about concerning guns.

mexico has strict gun control laws

Columbia too-I know I have competed in both countries as a SHOOTER


cities that BAN guns have higher gun crime rates than NEARBY areas that do not


so tell us just what laws do you want imposed in the USA

Mexico and Columbia are at war with drug lords.. And since they boarder a country with millions of guns, getting one is easy.
 
Mexico and Columbia are at war with drug lords.. And since they boarder a country with millions of guns, getting one is easy.

columbia borders the USA

the errors multiply
 
Did I ever say that most criminals steal their guns from legal owners. No!

Really? I mean I realize it was waaaaaayyyyy back at post 32, but you said...

I think they should, because all illegal guns start out in the hands of a legal owner.

You sir, are not only lying, but you are horribly bad at it....You are dismissed.
 
Yes, you are right. The mexican drug cartels many times will trade drugs for weapons from the US. WHICH AT SOME POINT ARE OBTAINED LEGALLY!!!!

most of the cartels are using fully automatic mlitary grade weapons

here is how they get them (btw American gun dealers are not the source nor can they sell post 1986 machine guns unless they have a police department order)

1) from government sources such as corrupt cops or military policemen

2) from anti western nation states. Chavez has a AK factory in his country-many of the weapons made there are going to mexico

3) from international arms brokers. IN the last 30 years many eastern european nations the soviet weapons they obtained under the iron curtain system have been dumped on the global arms market. In some cases Eastern bloc nations joined NATO and went to STANAG weapons or in other cases the older AK has been replaced with the newer AK74 based system. China no longer is using the millions of Russian and Russian satellite weapons, instead making their own innovative weapons systems and they have lots of USSR stuff to sell
 
I'll be right with you if he lurches in that direction, but for now let's see...I mean after all in his first term he promised to do what you say and then proceeded to do nothing. He is not big on keeping his word to anyone.

Its the only way he can go. Look at FF. It had one purpose, to create a greater demand for gun control in the US. It backfired when it was found out that the government was essentially providing the weapons. Any corrupt politician who can preside over that does not need a "wait and see".

Once done, it will not be undone.
 
columbia borders the USA

the errors multiply

Did I say the US.. Wow, your reading comprehension is almost as bad as your debating skills. Guns generally follow the same path as drugs just in reverse. The biggest customer of drugs in N. America.... The United States. Also, the largest producer in N.America of guns as well. Try using some logic, it will help out your debating skills. It also helps if you have a bit of reading comprehension skills to go along with it.
 
Really? I mean I realize it was waaaaaayyyyy back at post 32, but you said...



You sir, are not only lying, but you are horribly bad at it....You are dismissed.

His posts don't evidence much understanding of this issue. It appears that what we have is a person who has a fear of guns and works backwards to justify it
 
Did I say the US.. Wow, your reading comprehension is almost as bad as your debating skills. Guns generally follow the same path as drugs just in reverse. The biggest customer of drugs in N. America.... The United States. Also, the largest producer in N.America of guns as well. Try using some logic, it will help out your debating skills. It also helps if you have a bit of reading comprehension skills to go along with it.

so what is the big gun producing state bordering columbia?

Logic would help your arguments

you are emotobabbling over guns and have no facts on your side
 
Really? I mean I realize it was waaaaaayyyyy back at post 32, but you said...



You sir, are not only lying, but you are horribly bad at it....You are dismissed.

If this is not true, then how do guns from major manufacturers end up in the hands of criminals?
 
so what is the big gun producing state bordering columbia?

Logic would help your arguments

you are emotobabbling over guns and have no facts on your side

Did I say that columbia boarders a major gun producing state. Again, failure of reading comprehension.
 
If this is not true, then how do guns from major manufacturers end up in the hands of criminals?

through ILLEGAL activities

1) stolen

2) straw purchases (ie an illegal purchase)

3) gifts from family members which may or may not be illegal

4) guns acquired legally by a criminal before the criminal became a prohibited person-however further possession is then illegal
 
through ILLEGAL activities

1) stolen

2) straw purchases (ie an illegal purchase)

3) gifts from family members which may or may not be illegal

4) guns acquired legally by a criminal before the criminal became a prohibited person-however further possession is then illegal
So your saying they are stolen or sold to them from legal owners?
 
Again, drugs are not even close to the same issue. And no, bad guys will not always have arms. The number of bad guys that have arms is directly cooralated to how easy it is to get them. When nearly 1 in 4 people in the states own a gun, there is probably a good chance a bad guy is going to get ahold of a weapon. In places like china, japan and many other countries, weapons are not easily available. Which is why crimes are committed less often and with less lethal weapons. The proof is easily searchable. Crime rates in countries that ban guns is significantly lower than the US (not including countries that are at war).

This is just plain foolishness. Many countries have high levels of gun ownership. Look at Switzerland. Or Israel. But they haven't even a smidgeon of our gun crimes.

So its not the guns. The problem is not the guns. The solution is not the guns.
 
So your saying they are stolen or sold to them from legal owners?

did you have a problem reading what I wrote.

so what laws do you want?
 
If this is not true, then how do guns from major manufacturers end up in the hands of criminals?

Verses guns from .... what ? Again, it is not the guns. Its our culture.
 
This is just plain foolishness. Many countries have high levels of gun ownership. Look at Switzerland. Or Israel. But they haven't even a smidgeon of our gun crimes.

So its not the guns. The problem is not the guns. The solution is not the guns.

Switzerland has no official military, so it supplies guns to local militias which act as a conscripted military. That is why they have many guns in Switzerland. However, gun laws are extremly tight for the average citizen. Nice try.

Israel is to busy defending itself from just about every country surrounding them to be shooting each other.
 
I agree that we have a cultural issue which is further exacerbated by the easy access to firearms.

are you going to tell us what laws you want concerning firearms or are you going to continue to whine about "easy access to firearms"
 
Switzerland has no official military, so it supplies guns to local militias which act as a conscripted military. That is why they have many guns in Switzerland. However, gun laws are extremly tight for the average citizen. Nice try.

Israel is to busy defending itself from just about every country surrounding them to be shooting each other.

Point being, they have guns. But they do not have the gun crime. So it ain't the guns.
 
are you going to tell us what laws you want concerning firearms or are you going to continue to whine about "easy access to firearms"

To solve our issues here in the states.. I would like a full ban on firearms period. But, the realist in me understands that this will not occur at least for a very long time. So I would compromise and simply outlaw just about everything with the exception of a low caliber handguns. I would limit the number to 1 per individual and make getting one even more difficult than gaining citizenship. Everyone would be required to go thru extensive gun training as well as backround checks and psychological assessments by at least 3 psychologists. All of which would have to deem the person fit to own a firearm. Then I would hold the licensing authority as well as the psychologists responsible for anyone who slips thru the cracks so that they take their jobs seriously. I would also hold individuals responsible for their weapons if they are found in the hands of someone committing a crime. As far as I am concerned, if a crime is committed with that weapon, the person who supplied that weapon should be given the same punishment as the criminal.
 
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