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Thread: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

  1. #211
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It certainly is feasible. It would take action on an immense scale, and this is exactly what needs to happen. I am completely flabbergasted that there are people who believe throwing more guns into this perilous situation is the answer. I just don't understand how increasing the availability of guns will solve this issue. All you would be doing is making it even cheaper to get a gun on the streets illegally.
    Action would be required on an immense scale because of the vast amount of firearms involved and would require more than just sacrificing gun rights given the political realities in the US (things like privacy, illegal search and seizure, private property, etc). This would go so far that in my opinion the ends would no longer justify the means. I completely agree with you on everything else though.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    If a handful of robbers are waylaying merchants as they traverse common routes, isnt the answer to grab a sword yourself?

    I bet you dont believe in controlled fires during dry seasons.
    No, that is not the answer. Maybe in a materialist world where you believe life is more valuable than posessions. The best solution is to empower law enforcement.

    Yes, but I also believe that the majority of fires are set by the very people trying to control them.
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Action would be required on an immense scale because of the vast amount of firearms involved and would require more than just sacrificing gun rights given the political realities in the US (things like privacy, illegal search and seizure, private property, etc). This would go so far that in my opinion the ends would no longer justify the means. I completely agree with you on everything else though.
    Well, it would not be considered illegal seizure if the item you are concealing is illegal to own. And yes, you would be correct in saying that it would be nearly impossible to seize every gun due to the illegal search laws, but unless we figure out a way to accomplish this, we will all simply have to accept the reality that by living in a highly armed society, these things will happen.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    So lets say we somehow magically get rid of all the guns, and these violent acts still happen; as they have for hundreds of years before the gun was invented; then what? What would be the new inanimate object to blame? Maybe one day we will Instead focus on trying to find the real answers for why people commit such heinous acts. But instead we play the blame game because that is far more easy.
    I perceive that, when an acorn and a chestnut fall side by side, the one does not remain inert to make way for the other, but both obey their own laws, and spring and grow and flourish as best they can, till one, perchance, overshadows and destroys the other. If a plant cannot live according to nature, it dies; and so a man. - Henry David Thoreau -

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by BMC COOLBEANS View Post
    So lets say we somehow magically get rid of all the guns, and these violent acts still happen; as they have for hundreds of years before the gun was invented; then what? What would be the new inanimate object to blame? Maybe one day we will Instead focus on trying to find the real answers for why people commit such heinous acts. But instead we play the blame game because that is far more easy.
    I understand what you are saying completely. These things will still happen, they just wont happen nearly as often with the use of firearms. The fact that ALL of the most recent mass killings have occurred via firearms suggests this is the easiest way to kill many people quickly. Are there other ways, yes. However, if there were easier ways, these people would have utilized them rather than using guns. Guns are the issue right now that needs to be addressed.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Entirely false! Law enforcements motto is to PROTECT and serve. It is the motto almost every police force is based on. If the police were there only to investigate after the fact, then why is so much money put in to protecting society? If this were true, calling 911 would be pointless. They would just tell you they could not do anything until you were dead or someone else was dead. Thats just insane.
    Just to let you know, courts have upheld that the police don't actually have a duty to protect you. They don't exist to serve you. They exist to protect and serve the law.
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    Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I understand what you are saying completely. These things will still happen, they just wont happen nearly as often with the use of firearms. The fact that ALL of the most recent mass killings have occurred via firearms suggests this is the easiest way to kill many people quickly. Are there other ways, yes. However, if there were easier ways, these people would have utilized them rather than using guns. Guns are the issue right now that needs to be addressed.
    They are not. Mental health care is. Our mental stability is. Any other idea is bunk. Why? We can't stop people from being violent, but maybe we can at least give some people an outlet to stop them from going on a killing spree. Btw people don't need a gun to do this, that just happens to be what they see on the news. How many dangerous chemicals and items can you lay your hands on in a day? I know scores for me...and I am not ever in a tool store or chemical facility.

    Why not address why so many mass killers are white? Educated? Do you know anything about mass killers mind set? Their drive? Motive? Does CNN? The media can't even tell you who the correct mass shooter is, and where his mother works. Maybe we should talk about how the news should only be on once a day and how we have no responsible journalism and they beat us over the head with this depressing crap.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  8. #218
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    My point was that it is not written in stone.

    Your point then is deeply misinformed, and flawed.
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    I understand what you are saying completely. These things will still happen, they just wont happen nearly as often with the use of firearms. The fact that ALL of the most recent mass killings have occurred via firearms suggests this is the easiest way to kill many people quickly. Are there other ways, yes. However, if there were easier ways, these people would have utilized them rather than using guns. Guns are the issue right now that needs to be addressed.

    There is nothing new in the horrible tragedy that befell NewTown CT this past week, nor is the Gun responsible for anything. It worked as designed. The person is responsible. However, it may shock some to realize that this was not even the biggest mass killing of elementary school kids...

    The Bath School disaster is the name given to three bombings in Bath Township, Michigan, on May 18, 1927, which killed 38 elementary school children, two teachers, and four other adults; at least 58 people were injured. The perpetrator first killed his wife, and committed suicide with his last explosion. Most of the victims were children in the second to sixth grades (7–14 years of age[1]) attending the Bath Consolidated School. Their deaths constitute the deadliest mass murder in a school in United States history.
    The bomber was the school board treasurer Andrew Kehoe, 55, who was angry after being defeated in the spring 1926 election for township clerk. He was thought to have planned his "murderous revenge" after that public defeat; he had a reputation for difficulty on the school board and in personal dealings. For much of the next year, a neighbor noticed Kehoe had stopped working on his farm and thought he might be planning suicide. During that period, Kehoe carried out steps in his plan to destroy the school and his farm by purchasing and hiding explosives.
    Kehoe's wife was ill with tuberculosis and he had stopped making mortgage payments; he was under pressure for foreclosure. Some time between May 16 and the morning of May 18, 1927, Kehoe murdered his wife by hitting her on the head. On the morning of May 18 about 8:45, he exploded incendiary devices in his house and farm buildings, setting them on fire and destroying them.
    Almost simultaneously, an explosion devastated the north wing of the school building, killing many schoolchildren. Kehoe had used a timed detonator to ignite dynamite and hundreds of pounds of incendiary pyrotol, which he had secretly planted inside the school over the course of many months. As rescuers gathered at the school, Kehoe drove up, stopped, and used a rifle to detonate dynamite inside his shrapnel-filled truck, killing himself, the school superintendent, and several others nearby, as well as injuring more bystanders. During rescue efforts at the school, searchers discovered an additional 500 pounds (230 kg) of unexploded dynamite and pyrotol planted throughout the basement of the south wing. Kehoe had apparently intended to blow up and destroy the entire school.

    Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Notice the only gun mentioned in this tragedy was the one used to kill himself....Guns won't stop this kind of horrible event from happening.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Just to let you know, courts have upheld that the police don't actually have a duty to protect you. They don't exist to serve you. They exist to protect and serve the law.
    Unless I am mistaken, individual rights are protected by the law. As long as things like murder, assault and harassment are protected rights by law, then police are obligated to PROTECT us and arrest those who violate these basic individual rights to be free of these things.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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