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Thread: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

  1. #201
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by BMC COOLBEANS View Post
    2) All internet sales of guns need to be banned. Deadly weapons should only be sold face-to-face by a federally lic. dealer.



    You do realize all guns sold through the internet must be sent to a someone with a federal firearms license (FFL) in your state of residence. After the gun has shipped to the dealer in you state your must still fill out a 4473 (background check) before you may take possession of the weapon. You cannot just simply buy the gun online and have it shipped to your home with no paper trail.
    its amazing the amount of idiocy spewed by the media, politicians and the fuzzy-brained gun haters. I cannot tell you how many fools have whined about automatic weapons

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by BMC COOLBEANS View Post
    2) All internet sales of guns need to be banned. Deadly weapons should only be sold face-to-face by a federally lic. dealer.



    You do realize all guns sold through the internet must be sent to a someone with a federal firearms license (FFL) in your state of residence. After the gun has shipped to the dealer in you state your must still fill out a 4473 (background check) before you may take possession of the weapon. You cannot just simply buy the gun online and have it shipped to your home with no paper trail.
    the only way to buy a gun by mail without going to a dealer (and assuming you are not a dealer or holder of a Federal "Curio and relic license) is through the ODCMP-the Civilian Marksmanship program

    to buy a gun (usually a GARAND surplus rifle) you have to sign an affidavit and prove

    1) you are a member of a CMP certified program (gun clubs affiliated with the program)

    2) proof of firearms activity-such as a CCW permit. the ODCMP conducts the same background check on you that a dealer does before the rifle is shipped to you.

    but true, there is no internet sales to non license holders. it like the "Gun show loophole" is a figment of the deliberately lying anti gun thugs

  3. #203
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Well, that is probably true. Haven't heard of a mass shooter taking on a gun club yet.

    But on the other side of that coin is that there are some damn idiots who want to carry guns. It is like the local moron here who went into a Costco restroom to take a dump and ended up dropping his pistol on the floor causing it to fire a shot off. Fortunately nobody got hit. There are a number of stories of morons shooting their best friend because they ignored the basic rules of gunmanship.

    I like the idea of this 22 year old man having a gun but not fond of the nervous Rambos waving that gun around. It is just like car drivers. Some are quite excellent and respectful and then you have the idiots.

    I absolutely have no idea how you separate the idiots from intelligent people.
    you do know that such accidents are often more prevalent with police officers? You also know that cops are more likely to hit the wrong target or miss the bad guy?

    there are two reasons for that

    armed civilians who are NOT LEOs generally are being attacked before they shoot and thus easily identify the bad guy. Cops sometimes "provoke" the conduct that leads to shootings such as the riot causing action in Cincinnati ten years ago where a cop was told Timothy Thomas had 14 WARRANTS when in reality it was 14 minor traffic capiases. The cop therefore chased after Thomas through the most dangerous area of town in the early hours of the morning only to corner Thomas in an alley. Like many black youths, Thomas didn't believe in belts or properly sized trousers and after being cornered he realized his pants were at his knees. He tried to pull his pants up only to be fatally shot by Officer Steven Roach who claimed TT was going for a gun.

    the second is many cops don't like to practice-we who have CCWs tend to shoot a lot

    and of course we have that story in NYC where an immigrant was shot at 41 times-hit a bunch less.

    Another cincinnati incident involved a mope who drove a car up onto fountain square. The local constabulary engaged in a gun fight with the mope and his car. The training sargent was a friend of mine. THe closest cop (this was back in the days of 6 shot SW model 19 357 revolvers) got behind hard cover, aimed carefully and squeezed off 6 shots. He told the TO that he was trying to shoot a small group hoping the 5 or 6th bullet would be able to go through the hole previously created by the first few rounds and hit the mope

    forensics indicate that his first shot hit the front tire, the second the hood, the third the front door-the last ended up in the trunk

    this was at a stationary vehicle 17 feet away and the mope was firing at cops 120 degrees away from the cop shooting. He was shooting two handed with the weapon braced against the corner of a wall.

  4. #204
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Deterence.. hahaha.. Well, if we are one dimensional thinkers, maybe. However, some of us can think beyond and rationalize the situation. Yes, you are safer in an ARMED society by being armed. However, if guns were not so easily available, it begs to question weather many of these instances would have taken place to begin with. If there were no one there with a gun, you would not need to defend yourself against it. Simple logic... All guns start out being sold legally to someone or some organization. It is what happens after that, that causes the problems. So the only way to control that, is to very tightly control, or ban guns. Those who obtain guns illegally, obtain them from someone who got them legally at some point.
    I find it hilarious that you A) recognize that those who abuse guns obtain them illegally and B) think that the problem can thus be reduced by attacking legal gun sales.

    Make guns difficult to get, and all that means is that the only people who will have them are those who really want them.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Deterence.. hahaha.. Well, if we are one dimensional thinkers, maybe. However, some of us can think beyond and rationalize the situation. Yes, you are safer in an ARMED society by being armed. However, if guns were not so easily available, it begs to question weather many of these instances would have taken place to begin with. If there were no one there with a gun, you would not need to defend yourself against it. Simple logic... All guns start out being sold legally to someone or some organization. It is what happens after that, that causes the problems. So the only way to control that, is to very tightly control, or ban guns. Those who obtain guns illegally, obtain them from someone who got them legally at some point.
    You are completely correct. This represents the reality of the world. An important question to ask, however, is whether such a solution would be feasible in the US. The US compared to other countries that have implemented strict gun control policies did not have to deal with the shear volume of firearms already available to citizens in the US. Initiating a gun ban in the US would be extremely ineffective given the vast amount of firearms already in the "market" and various constitutional barriers (illegal search and seizure, 2nd amendment, etc). So what you are saying is true, but the solution is not feasible. We would not be able to meaningfully reduce the size of the pool of guns from which criminals can get them.
    Last edited by drz-400; 12-18-12 at 11:08 PM.

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's a different question and a dishonest one...
    My point was that it is not written in stone.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  7. #207
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    its amazing the amount of idiocy spewed by the media, politicians and the fuzzy-brained gun haters. I cannot tell you how many fools have whined about automatic weapons
    I agree, why discriminate! Regardless of its capacity or capability, it should be heavily regulated or banned.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  8. #208
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the only way to buy a gun by mail without going to a dealer (and assuming you are not a dealer or holder of a Federal "Curio and relic license) is through the ODCMP-the Civilian Marksmanship program

    to buy a gun (usually a GARAND surplus rifle) you have to sign an affidavit and prove

    1) you are a member of a CMP certified program (gun clubs affiliated with the program)

    2) proof of firearms activity-such as a CCW permit. the ODCMP conducts the same background check on you that a dealer does before the rifle is shipped to you.

    but true, there is no internet sales to non license holders. it like the "Gun show loophole" is a figment of the deliberately lying anti gun thugs

    You are 100% correct about the C&R license and the CMP; I did not mention them because it is not a very common way to procure firearms, especially for criminals. I also have no idea what the "Gun show loophole" is because at least in my state you must have a background check done the same as going to a gun store.
    I perceive that, when an acorn and a chestnut fall side by side, the one does not remain inert to make way for the other, but both obey their own laws, and spring and grow and flourish as best they can, till one, perchance, overshadows and destroys the other. If a plant cannot live according to nature, it dies; and so a man. - Henry David Thoreau -

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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    You are completely correct. This represents the reality of the world. An important question to ask, however, is whether such a solution would be feasible in the US. The US compared to other countries that have implemented strict gun control policies did not have to deal with the shear volume of firearms already available to citizens in the US. Initiating a gun ban in the US would be extremely ineffective given the vast amount of firearms already in the "market" and various constitutional barriers (illegal search and seizure, 2nd amendment, etc). So what you are saying is true, but the solution is not feasible. We would not be able to meaningfully reduce the size of the pool of guns from which criminals can get them.
    It certainly is feasible. It would take action on an immense scale, and this is exactly what needs to happen. I am completely flabbergasted that there are people who believe throwing more guns into this perilous situation is the answer. I just don't understand how increasing the availability of guns will solve this issue. All you would be doing is making it even cheaper to get a gun on the streets illegally.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

  10. #210
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    Re: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    It certainly is feasible. It would take action on an immense scale, and this is exactly what needs to happen. I am completely flabbergasted that there are people who believe throwing more guns into this perilous situation is the answer. I just don't understand how increasing the availability of guns will solve this issue. All you would be doing is making it even cheaper to get a gun on the streets illegally.
    If a handful of robbers are waylaying merchants as they traverse common routes, isnt the answer to grab a sword yourself?

    I bet you dont believe in controlled fires during dry seasons.
    Is society was made of coral our world would be floral.

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