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Thread: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Most people outlive the amount they paid in and the interest that would have accumulated on that money. If we limited it to you get what you paid in with interest, there would never ever be a solvency issue. Whether you like it or not, the reality is that a big chunk of the money people feel they earned and are entitled to is money they did not earn and are not entitled to and eventually the amount going out exceeds the amount coming in. In addition others draw of that same money like spouses and disabled children. It is nothing more than a welfare program hidden behind a separate tax line on your paystub. If we wish to keep it, then it will have to be substantially reformed and means-testing is a more reasonable approach than raising the retirement age to 80.

    I don't think age 80 is anywhere near on the table is it? I thought they were discussing 67...
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Except that Obama himself is a weak leader, that is ideologically driven by the far left. Remember the last debt ceiling negotiations? They had a deal, went home for the night to come back the next day and solidify it, and Obama moved the goal posts and sunk the deal, then blamed it on Boehner...

    We need leaders on both sides, what we have now is far left partisan, pushing around a wishy washy weakling, willing to compromise principle because he is worried what the Washington press will write....
    Obama isn't ideological except when it suits him. His whole history indicates a need to be accepted by the white conservatives. It was how he got his position on law review; it was why he always voted "present"; and those are the people he wants to be paying him millions of dollars for nothing when he leaves office.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Obama isn't ideological except when it suits him. His whole history indicates a need to be accepted by the white conservatives. It was how he got his position on law review; it was why he always voted "present"; and those are the people he wants to be paying him millions of dollars for nothing when he leaves office.
    I see what you are saying, and that is an argument that could be made I'm sure...However, I don't see it that way, I think he is beyond ideological, to the point of cynical, purposeful, and deceitful despotism. His problem is that this country is too strong so far to allow his real desires to be realized.
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This crap out of the Obama lying White House is such Bull **** it is inexcusable. Obama tells you that it is Boehner and repubs holding up the talks because they won't give in to demo demands, yet when repubs do indeed cave, and ask that entitlement reform be tied to the plan Obama balks....

    We are negotiating with ourselves people. Obama has NO sign that he is willing to negotiate in good faith at all, it is his way or the highway....I say pass a tax cut on the three bottom tax tiers, and keep the top two the same, pass it in the house, dump it on Reid's desk, and go home.
    That would be awesome. In the past few weeks, if he hadn't already, Obama's demonstrated the fruitfulness of trying to negotiate with a crazy person.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't think age 80 is anywhere near on the table is it? I thought they were discussing 67...
    It will be eventually even higher if nothing else is done but that was a number I pulled out of the air to illustrate the point as some think the age should be raised to life expectancy like it was originally. Since my SS statement refers to benefits if I work until I am 70, it is just a matter of time since I presume that is already a foregone conclusion for the time it takes me to get there. I pay my whole chunk in for myself and the employer contribution for my employees. It all comes out of my own pocket. It isn't as if I am advocating for a policy that is likely to benefit me at all unless I have a horrible turn of luck. I am just being realistic. The notch babies nobody ever mentions were not allowed to receive full SS benefits regardless of how much they contributed or how long they worked, but I think most of them are dead by now, so they were not entitled to what others were entitled to by design of the system originally, but it was eventually concluded that they received more than more recently born folks because of the continued dilution of the value of benefits paid to the elderly.
    Last edited by Fisher; 12-16-12 at 03:14 PM.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    It will be eventually even hire if nothing else is done but that was a number I pulled out of the air to illustrate the point as some think the age should be raised to life expectancy like it was originally. Since my SS statement refers to benefits if I work until I am 70, it is just a matter of time since I presume that is already a foregone conclusion for the time it takes me to get there. I pay my whole chunk in for myself and the employer contribution for my employees. It all comes out of my own pocket. It isn't as if I am advocating for a policy that is likely to benefit me at all unless I have a horrible turn of luck. I am just being realistic. The notch babies nobody ever mentions were not allowed to receive full SS benefits regardless of how much they contributed or how long they worked, but I think most of them are dead by now, so they were not entitled to what others were entitled to by design of the system originally, but it was eventually concluded that they received more than more recently born folks because of the continued dilution of the value of benefits paid to the elderly.
    Which all the more highlights why it was always a ponzi scheme...But I am 50 now, and already know that if I ever get to retire, I will see very little if any of my input to the system. If they really wanted to be fair, they would dissolve the program, and cut a check to each and every participant for what they have put in and allow them to transfer it to an individually controlled IRA.

    There problem solved.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Republicans aren't "blocking" tax hikes on the rich - republicans TIME AND TIME AGAIN offered the tax hikes just as long as government cut spending. The Obama administration and democrats in Senate REFUSE to cut spending.

    You know why democrats refuse to cut spending? because they damn well know they have to pay people to vote for them via entitlements, benefits and government grants. If democrats stopped spending money on their minions their minions (voting base) would stop voting for them. So the only solution democrats have is to continue to spend and continue to raise taxes - which is why we are at this "fiscal cliff" in the first place.

    Republicans are trying to save this economy and country while democrats are more worried about pandering and making good on the promises of free entitlements, benefits and "Obama phones" to their voting base, just so they can retain their elitist position and their power...
    It is typical of every non-democrat to think that every democrat is on welfare, or every one sits on their asses all day and just collects government money. FYI you are wrong.
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    All while failing to look in a mirror. How ironic.
    Well, you have argued the word wasn't subjective. You could have also addressed the issue that i responded to. But you didn't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Do you have any evidence to back up your claim?
    Which claim are you talking about?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Which all the more highlights why it was always a ponzi scheme...But I am 50 now, and already know that if I ever get to retire, I will see very little if any of my input to the system. If they really wanted to be fair, they would dissolve the program, and cut a check to each and every participant for what they have put in and allow them to transfer it to an individually controlled IRA.

    There problem solved.
    In today's market probably not, but I get your point. Realistically people in their 20's and 30's could benefit greatly from that because of the time value of money. At 50, I doubt you would so much because it takes 10-15 years to really start pulling in the bigger relative gains. Even more realistically, most people would spend it or let their kids sucker them out of it and we would have a generation of broke old folks on welfare to pay for yet again. It is becoming a notable issue with reverse mortgages when the owners take it all out as a lump sum, spend it all, and then have no money to pay taxes, insurance, maintenance and have no assets to borrow off of or good income to pay a loan with.

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