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Thread: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

  1. #171
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Those were thoughts taken from others. My addition would be to create professional politicians also, instead of just career ones.

    I think that anyone that wants to run for public office should be required to complete a "human management" degree. Really, that is what government boils down to, how to manage human societies. The degree with focus upon political, economic and sociological history (an idea partly drawn from Isaac Asimov and his idea of phycho-history from Foundation series and also, the Naked Sun). Basically, a program that teaches what political, social and economic decision in the past were and what was the result of them, to the best of our available knowledge. That includes the history of all societies, not just the US. All socio-political philosophies should be taught, examined and the pros and cons of each evaluated. Also through in a reasonable dose of leadership.
    Now, that part I would agree to.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by BradPitt View Post
    Raising taxes on certain people while continuing to spend like maniacs is not going to get us anywhere. Foreign aid and military spending is where I would start to make cuts followed by lowering salaries of government officials.

    We are not supposed to work for the government, the government is supposed to work for us.
    In a country where everyone is supposed to be equal, you can not penalize one group more than others just because of the size of their bank account.

    The only way this class envy works is to portray the wealthy as evil fat cat businessmen who want to rape everyone of their money when reality is the majority of the top 1% of Americans are athletes & actors....the Hollywood elite.

    The Wall St banker is evil because he made a $3 million dollar bonus while we are all suffering through this economy...thats wrong

    BUT

    The Athlete got $5 million signing bonus just sign a piece of paper to play for a team...nothing said
    The Hollywood actor got $20 million for working 8 weeks on a new movie...nothing said

    I dont care how much a person makes, more power to them for making as much as they can with the talents God gave them, just dont penalize them for it.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    It's the TP's way or the highway! Damn that Obama for not caving in to thwir demands.
    Why should their position be any different than Obama's?

    His negotiating style is to give me everything I want and more...and if you dont give me everything I want, me and my willing associates in the media will blame you for everything that goes wrong...and if you DO give me everything I want, me and my willing associates in the media will blame you for everything that goes wrong too.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Why should their position be any different than Obama's?

    His negotiating style is to give me everything I want and more...and if you dont give me everything I want, me and my willing associates in the media will blame you for everything that goes wrong...and if you DO give me everything I want, me and my willing associates in the media will blame you for everything that goes wrong too.

    This is the problem, the people or at least a slight majority of them that showed out do indeed think like this and not rationally, or with any historical knowledge. For example, read through the exchange above between DV, and Boo...Progressives like Boo don't use "democracy" in the sense that our founders envisioned in our constitution, but rather in some warped vision where this country is overseen by quasi dictators, and measures that put them in office are direct democracy...Iran has this sort of system that they want, and how does that work? Corrupt votes that give Ahminajihad 97% of the the vote (yeah right) or Venezuela that does the same for Chavez? Where is the opportunity in those places? Their equality of outcome is impossible in a free society, so their vision for America naturally needs to make us less free.

    And the sad part is at least one of those people teaches our kids with our permission.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is the problem, the people or at least a slight majority of them that showed out do indeed think like this and not rationally, or with any historical knowledge. For example, read through the exchange above between DV, and Boo...Progressives like Boo don't use "democracy" in the sense that our founders envisioned in our constitution, but rather in some warped vision where this country is overseen by quasi dictators, and measures that put them in office are direct democracy...Iran has this sort of system that they want, and how does that work? Corrupt votes that give Ahminajihad 97% of the the vote (yeah right) or Venezuela that does the same for Chavez? Where is the opportunity in those places? Their equality of outcome is impossible in a free society, so their vision for America naturally needs to make us less free.

    And the sad part is at least one of those people teaches our kids with our permission.
    Our founders never intended this country to be a democracy....a democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.

    Our founders designed this nation to be a Constitutional Republic....sadly, most dont have a clue what that means or the difference between the two.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    In a country where everyone is supposed to be equal, you can not penalize one group more than others just because of the size of their bank account.
    "that all men are created equal" is perhaps the most misunderstood and most abused concept in our society and government. It is not even in the Constitution, but in the Declaration of Independence.

    The Declaration of Independence is not a governing document, or at least it was not intended to be. It was explaining to England that we, at least those supporting it, were revolting against England and why we were doing it.

    I believe the meaning is fairly simple. England had a class society based upon heredity. It says that there is no Noble class that naturally exists giving one person rights over another simply by dint of Birth, but rather that all people should be treated equally under the law and have the same rights at birth.

    We know, beyond any doubt that not every person is born equal to any other person except that law should be applied to each and every individual equally. Each and every person has innate intelligence, personality, drive, interests and talents, among other things. Some are born into poverty and some into wealth. The authors of the Declaration knew that there was no way that each and every person would "equal" in all things, it is impossible. However, they believed that government and law should be applied to each and every person no matter what station in life they are born to or what level they rise to.

    Throughout our history, this one statement has been applied in many different ways. Some good, some bad. It's application to our education system has been particularly stellar in gutting the effectiveness of that education system. It has been used to demand that all children have access to and be taught the same as every other child without taking in account natural intelligence and abilities. It has been demanded that monies be spent on all children equally despite differing needs and variations between individual children and the cost of giving each child the best education possible.

    It has been used to justify welfare and other entitlement programs, after all, if all people are created equal, shouldn't they all have a basic standard of living, regardless of their own efforts to achieve it? Shouldn't all people be given equal opportunities? If the true concept of all people being equal was actually applied to these types of laws, then many of our existing laws would not exist as they only apply to some, not all of the people. If Welfare was applied using the real meaning of this phrase then every person in the US would receive the same welfare check, regardless of their current economic status. That would be equally applying the law. Affirmative action would not exist since it only applies to some, it uses race, color, sex and other factors to give greater advantage to some over others. If the law treats them all equally, regardless of those factors, the it would have the same affect for everyone, not just some.

    While some use this phrase to mean many different things, it is clear that the one thing they do not want to apply it to is Taxes. If government is required, as some believe, to treat all citizens equal under the law, then the same, equal tax rate would apply to all citizens.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This is the problem, the people or at least a slight majority of them that showed out do indeed think like this and not rationally, or with any historical knowledge. For example, read through the exchange above between DV, and Boo...Progressives like Boo don't use "democracy" in the sense that our founders envisioned in our constitution, but rather in some warped vision where this country is overseen by quasi dictators, and measures that put them in office are direct democracy...Iran has this sort of system that they want, and how does that work? Corrupt votes that give Ahminajihad 97% of the the vote (yeah right) or Venezuela that does the same for Chavez? Where is the opportunity in those places? Their equality of outcome is impossible in a free society, so their vision for America naturally needs to make us less free.

    And the sad part is at least one of those people teaches our kids with our permission.
    Damn, you whine about being insulted, and you misread me that badly? Not sure how to address such ignorance civilly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #178
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    "that all men are created equal" is perhaps the most misunderstood and most abused concept in our society and government. It is not even in the Constitution, but in the Declaration of Independence.

    The Declaration of Independence is not a governing document, or at least it was not intended to be. It was explaining to England that we, at least those supporting it, were revolting against England and why we were doing it.

    I believe the meaning is fairly simple. England had a class society based upon heredity. It says that there is no Noble class that naturally exists giving one person rights over another simply by dint of Birth, but rather that all people should be treated equally under the law and have the same rights at birth.

    We know, beyond any doubt that not every person is born equal to any other person except that law should be applied to each and every individual equally. Each and every person has innate intelligence, personality, drive, interests and talents, among other things. Some are born into poverty and some into wealth. The authors of the Declaration knew that there was no way that each and every person would "equal" in all things, it is impossible. However, they believed that government and law should be applied to each and every person no matter what station in life they are born to or what level they rise to.

    Throughout our history, this one statement has been applied in many different ways. Some good, some bad. It's application to our education system has been particularly stellar in gutting the effectiveness of that education system. It has been used to demand that all children have access to and be taught the same as every other child without taking in account natural intelligence and abilities. It has been demanded that monies be spent on all children equally despite differing needs and variations between individual children and the cost of giving each child the best education possible.

    It has been used to justify welfare and other entitlement programs, after all, if all people are created equal, shouldn't they all have a basic standard of living, regardless of their own efforts to achieve it? Shouldn't all people be given equal opportunities? If the true concept of all people being equal was actually applied to these types of laws, then many of our existing laws would not exist as they only apply to some, not all of the people. If Welfare was applied using the real meaning of this phrase then every person in the US would receive the same welfare check, regardless of their current economic status. That would be equally applying the law. Affirmative action would not exist since it only applies to some, it uses race, color, sex and other factors to give greater advantage to some over others. If the law treats them all equally, regardless of those factors, the it would have the same affect for everyone, not just some.

    While some use this phrase to mean many different things, it is clear that the one thing they do not want to apply it to is Taxes. If government is required, as some believe, to treat all citizens equal under the law, then the same, equal tax rate would apply to all citizens.
    I am very aware of where the phrase originates from, but we are speaking legally...and under the law, Justice is blind based on the merits of the case not the persons race, religion, gender or bank account.

    And NO, people should not have the same basic standard of living...if they WANT the same or better than what they have, they need to EARN IT. In order for it to be GIVEN to one person someone else must be penalized unfairly to generate the revenue needed to GIVE that person what they have not earned.

    The tax system SHOULD be the same % rate whether or not you earn $20K or $200K a year....X % rate amount of $200K certainly is more than the same X % rate amount of $20K.

    Unfortunately our government doesnt really care about doing whats right...or even lawful ....or even whats not within its powers to do but does any way.
    Know the truth and the truth will make you mad, because the truth has no agenda.

  9. #179
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    This crap out of the Obama lying White House is such Bull **** it is inexcusable. Obama tells you that it is Boehner and repubs holding up the talks because they won't give in to demo demands, yet when repubs do indeed cave, and ask that entitlement reform be tied to the plan Obama balks....

    We are negotiating with ourselves people. Obama has NO sign that he is willing to negotiate in good faith at all, it is his way or the highway....I say pass a tax cut on the three bottom tax tiers, and keep the top two the same, pass it in the house, dump it on Reid's desk, and go home.
    Obama is a narcissistic puke... Obama wants to make the demands, Obama wants to clap his hands and say "jump" while his minions in congress say "how high." Obama isn't interested in having his own damn deal presented to him by republicans, he wants to present the same damn deal to republicans and have them "jump." To Obama this is a game - a power game.

    I don't even understand how this idiot Obama has any congressional support whatsoever.

    This is almost a themed "Pawn Stars" version of "Empire Strikes Back."

  10. #180
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    Re: White House won't accept new tax offer from Republican leader

    Obama needs to stand firm. He has the right approach and has the backing of the majority of Americans. Obama was too eager to try to appease the Republicans in his first term and as a result they stymied every effort he made at moving this country forward. Hopefully he has learned. Republicans are protecting the super wealthy off the backs of the working and middle class. They are willing to hold the working/middle class hostage to get breaks for the wealthiest of Americans. Americans see this and Republicans will pay the price politically if they don't change. Obama should hold firm and let Republicans make their own bed.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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