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Thread: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Talking about it is one thing.

    Some, however, are just having hysterics and emotional uproars and yelling for something to be done NOW... if we are to find an answer, to figure out of there are policies that could be implemented that might reduce such tragedies, it will only be determined after all the info is in and careful analysis has been done on what happened, how it happened, and why it happened.

    The knee-jerk reactionary stuff some are pulling doesn't solve problems, it creates them when made into policy without a period of cooling off and rational thought.

    Not talking about you personally, TPD.
    I agree policy should not be decided and implemented based on the emotional conclusions people are coming to after this tragedy. At the same time, I understand the urgency some people feel after hearing about this. I've seen quite a few posts that were just inflammatory and completely emotional, but I expect that. People are angry and people are scared and these things keep happening so some are reaching their breaking point. Similarly, there are others who know that they and the guns they use responsibly will be demonized after this and so they react emotionally as well. In other words, it's a cluster**** - but one that I sympathize with.

    Another thing I've thought about while reading some things here and elsewhere is that I suspect that the policies people are fervently pushing in the aftermath of this disaster are not policies that they are just coming up with in their knee-jerk, emotional state. On the contrary, they're pushing for policies that they've wanted for a long time based on information that's been accumulated over the course of several mass shootings just in a more panicked manner. After all, it's not as if this is the first shooting of this kind - we already have a lot of info and analysis on how these things happen. People are just pushing for what they've always thought will solve the problem.

    Geez. Just writing about this makes me sad. I can't get those kids out of my mind.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    Hysterics is calling the death of someone else's child a political football.. I responded to you.. If you have issues with my response, look in the mirror then.. A call to discussion about this issue is both logical and the right thing to do.. If you don't want to participate then don't.. But don't come in here and call the death of 27 people a political football..

    You are also not in a position to dictate when something is talked about.. We can discuss it whenever we want.. Don't be a political quarterback and try to call the play..


    You're the one who put words in my mouth, bud, words accusing me of saying the deaths of 20 children was meaningless.

    That was most certainly hysteria, because no one who knows me would ever dream of thinking that I considered 20 dead children meaningless.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I think more funding into the locking up of mentally ill people with dysfunction is in order. I think taking mentally ill people with dysfunction out of the school system is in order. I am not an idiot. I know that if we just let people take away guns then none of the other stuff will ever get done. When people who want to take away guns get serious about the other stuff the contributes to violence, then it will be a lot easier to find your compromise. Demand and offer up nothing--the autocratic Liberal playbook of late--is a non-starter.
    I agree with you completely.. How we handle our mentally ill is a large problem.. But let's not forget that Jared Laughner bought his gun legally after he had a diagnosis of mental illness.. We need some serious background checkes for both criminal records, and mental illness.. Nobody wants to take away any guns.. You really need to stop watching rightwing media and the NRA..

    But are you willing to pay more taxes to keep the mentally ill off the streets?? This goes to economy.. When spending is cut.. Conservatives call for entitlement spending.. What healthcare program do you think most mental health patience have?? Medicare?? Still want to cut funding to that?? See the problem??

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    You're the one who put words in my mouth, bud, words accusing me of saying the deaths of 20 children was meaningless.

    That was most certainly hysteria, because no one who knows me would ever dream of thinking that I considered 20 dead children meaningless.
    To me calling it a political football says just that and those were your words.. Just saying..

    There should be nobody in this forum that is against talking about this issue.. If they are then they shouldn't be posting in the forum because that is what a forum is for.. Talking about stuff.. Calling this discussion political football is both rude and insensitive.. We are talking about this because 27 people are dead tonight.. And it should be talked about it.. In the broadest of terms.. It should be talked about.. Not just gun control, but mental healthcare, funding for healthcare, medicare, background checks including mental illness, and anything else we can think of..

    The hysteria was in your post.. One second you are calling for payer and then next you are calling this issue a political football.. If this situation wasn't so serious I would normally find that hysterical..

    Yes, I was offended by your calling it a political football.. Defend it however you want.. You should have never used those words.. That is the simple truth..
    Last edited by DemonMyst; 12-14-12 at 10:23 PM.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    To me calling it a political football says just that and those were your words.. Just saying..

    There should be nobody in this forum that is against talking about this issue.. If they are then they shouldn't be posting in the forum because that is what a forum is for.. Talking about stuff.. Calling this discussion political football is both rude and insensitive.. We are talking about this because 27 people are dead tonight.. And it should be talked about it.. In the broadest of terms.. It should be talked about.. Not just gun control, but mental healthcare, funding for healthcare, medicare, background checks including mental illness, and anything else we can think of..

    The hysteria was in your post.. One second you are calling for payer and then next you are calling this issue a political football.. If this situation wasn't so serious I would normally find that hysterical..

    Yes, I was offended by your calling it a political football.. Defend it however you want.. You should have never used those words.. That is the simple truth..

    Reading comprehension. You need to work on it.

    I said "please DON'T make this into a political football"... I didn't CALL it a political football. Let's not pretend that there aren't those who WOULD indeed callously seize on this tragedy and use it to advance their existing political agenda, because we both know there are such people.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by hikari View Post
    Ell it is gonna be about 5 seconds before a conservative claims that they better buy guns as this means liberals will want to take them away or a liberal coming in here and posting that they should take them away.

    I won't though, I will merely point out that justice cannot be served, killing the man of he is still alive won't bring back the children. You can't even reach an eye for an eye style justice unless you can kill him 26 times..... That is what I find most frustrating about events like this, there isnt really a proper resolution to it, just senseless pain for its own sake.
    But, think of the next time, and their will be a next time. Most of these "nuts" do this for the "notariety" and the "glory" of being remembered. This is national front page news, reporters will study this nut's miserable life in every detail, his "history" will be remembered long after any of his "nameless" victims will be. He attained Jeffery Dahmer status without any "long term" effort at all. He went from zero to hero in one insane day. His 15 minutes of fame will outlast anyone that he ever knew in his life. He is a "hero" in the sense that all will know of his "accomplishment". He may now not be considered merely "a loser", he is now "the biggest loser". This sick, physochotic moron, gets to be tonight's "star" of the nation. This site, and many more will type more words about him, "the phsycho" than about the POTUS today and, trust me, this was the "motive", public revenge (and admiration)for the "wrongs" that he suffered. Yep, "he" is the one that suffered, not his nameless victims, they are now but numbers, it is "his" name that will be on the front page, the national news - "he" won, and we all lost. Beacuse we play by "his" rules. Rather than never mention his name we dwell on it, and will until the "next nut" takes his place. USA, USA, USA...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    Instead of claiming the shooter was evil, lets take a look at the shooters mental state. Perhaps if we had already had health care implemented, the sick individual who took these inocent lives would have gotten the mental health care he obviously needed and that would have prevented such a horrible situation. We have to address these problems. We can't just claim people like the shooter are evil and we can't do anything to prevent this sort of thing. These things will continue to happen over and over agian until we address the problems and come up with common sense solutions.
    The GOP are against health care for all and gun control. I would like to know why.
    Therapy and mental health care didn't stop the Aurora shooter. We have to stop assuming we can prevent every single unjustifiable act of violence. People are going to kill. They've been doing it for thousands of years. All of this "if we just had", "if we just did", "if he had just done" nonsense is just a way for us pretend we can prevent unthinkable tragedies. They're going to happen. We will NEVER prevent them entirely. We can certainly make efforts to decrease their likelihood, but we'd likely have to sacrifice a crap load of our freedoms to do so. Even other countries with strict gun laws and UHC deal with unthinkable tragedies. Bombs, serial killers, attacks with other weapons, rapes, mutilations, robberies...it'll still happen.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    Is it time to talk about gun control now?
    No. These mass shootings never happen at guns shows where all the "gun nuts" hang out. They only happen in "gun free" zones like schools and shopping malls.
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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    SO when is the time? After? how soon after? and I am not talking about on this site but nationally. Not a jab BTW but an honest question.
    Unless one has been living under a rock, nearly everyone knows that gun control has been one of the top political footballs of the past decade and beyond. It is debated constantly on cable news, during every election and every time someone who isn't a gangbanger or criminal gets shot. Here at DP there is a complete sub-forum dedicated to nothing but Gun Control, available 24/7, 365 days a year.

    Dragging it into a thread mourning a national tragedy before the bodies are cool smacks of tasteless, tacky, and disrespectful political opportunism, IMO.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    When is the time? If we don't do something soon, this will continue to happen. Sense Columbine, we have laxed our gun laws. That has only cost more innocent lives and we are no where near finding a solution for the problem. The reason we are no where near finding a solution for the problem is because no time is a good time to take about gun control and gun violence. Shame on all of us for letting these things contrinue to happen.
    You can talk about it after the kids are buried, and the parents have had a chance to grieve. It is ghoulish to bring this up, even while the victims are still warm. Many gun control advocates raised holy hell when Charlton Heston held an NRA rally in Flint Michigan the day after a child was shot to death in her school. Why would this be any different? It isn't. I agreed with the gun control people that Heston was being a jerk, and I am pro gun. But right now I believe that some of the gun control people are the ones being jerks.

    Please, just shut up. Talk to me in a week about it, and I will be happy to engage you in a fair debate. But for now, please shut up. I ask this respectfully, from the bottom of my heart.
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