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Thread: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    So you’re asking two questions about some undefined group of persons.
    1. Are the persons/organization who performed the background checks legitimate?
    2. Were the background checks completed?


    Well actually that’s the same question, since if the persons doing said background checks are corrupt or something, by default that means the background checks are invalid/incomplete.

    But again I’m wondering: Who the **** are these “questionable people”? That’s so vague it could have anyone included. Hell I find you a questionable person.

    What?
    I have no idea what this line is about.
    Not true IF A GUN DEAER RUNS A BACKGROUND CHECK AND THE BACKGROUND CHECK IS FALSE AND A AR 15 IS SOLD AND A LOT OF INNOCEWNT PEOPLE GET SHOT AND KILLED WHERE DOES THE FAULT LIE?

    READ THE PATRIOT ACT SOMETIME.

    Big deal some gun owners willing to protect America and don't even know what they're protecting.
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    And that answer is an assumption.
    "Just because something was changed does not mean it needed changing” well somebody thought it did.
    No.
    My answer was not an assumption - Just because something was changed, does not mean it needed changing.
    “Because somebody thought it did” does not in any way counter my statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    "or even that changing it in anyway improved on the situation" unless you have a database of everyone that tried to buy a gun after the law was passed then you too are assuming, gun control only hits the news after somebody is shot and killed.
    Of course I don’t know whether it helped or not. My point was, neither do you. There is no evidence that I have seen which proves or even indicates gun-law changes after VT incident improved the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    To say that no new preventative measures was taken after the new law was passed is saying your gun dealers are a little lax on following the law, if by following the new law they have may prevented some crazy person getting a gun and killing innocent people without even knowing it.
    Of course that is an assumption, but you have your assumptions I'll have mine.
    I never said no new measures were taken after new law (we’re talking about gun law changes after VT incident here, right?) was passed.
    Hell, I don’t even know what the “new law (then)” was/is.
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Not true IF A GUN DEAER RUNS A BACKGROUND CHECK AND THE BACKGROUND CHECK IS FALSE AND A AR 15 IS SOLD AND A LOT OF INNOCENT PEOPLE GET SHOT AND KILLED WHERE DOES THE FAULT LIE?

    READ THE PATRIOT ACT SOMETIME.

    Big deal some gun owners willing to protect America and don't even know what they're protecting.
    I have no idea how gun dealers run a background check, but I would guess that it involves a check of law enforcement databases for prior activities of the potential firearm purchaser.
    Hypothetically:
    If said background check comes up as “false” (by which I assume you mean, no issues), then the decision to sell or not to sell is up to the gun owner.
    If they then sell an AR 15 to said person
    If that person or someone else who has access to that weapon kills a bunch of people, the fault lies with…
    The person who shot a bunch of people.

    The gun shop owner obviously had no possible way of knowing that the person who purchased the weapon or the person who acquired said weapon from them was going to at some future date kill a bunch of people.
    The law enforcement agents obviously either were not aware of previous incidents which would raise a red flag, or there WERE no previous incidents.

    What are you suggesting here?

    As for the last two lines, regarding patriot act and gun owners, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    No.
    My answer was not an assumption - Just because something was changed, does not mean it needed changing.
    “Because somebody thought it did” does not in any way counter my statement.


    Of course I don’t know whether it helped or not. My point was, neither do you. There is no evidence that I have seen which proves or even indicates gun-law changes after VT incident improved the situation.
    I never said no new measures were taken after new law (we’re talking about gun law changes after VT incident here, right?) was passed.
    Hell, I don’t even know what the “new law (then)” was/is.
    Sorry but your answer is an assumption.
    Because before the VT KILLINGS,the gun control laws were then after the VT killing a new gun control law was passed.
    Not only did somebody think gun control law needed a change it was changed it takes a majority to make any change to any law we both know that.

    If in fact you do not know what the "new law" then was or is?
    How is it you know that the new law that was passed did not prevent more innocent people from being shot and killed??
    Just because some preventitive measures are taken and are successful does not mean they show up on T.V..

    I may not know that the new law prevented innocent people from being shot and killed but I remain optomistic that it did.

    While you seem to cling to the same statement made years ago "if it bleeds it leads", anything else is unimportant.
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Well, I'd say you're wrong about Freedom Group and I don't see anyone rushing in to buy the company in the wake of the massacre...which is a pretty strong statement too.. Oo, returning money to investors ie;himself, how thoughtful..



    Oochie waa waa and blam, blam, thank you maam....Mr. Feinstein, gun enthusiast, investor in military related businesses, major GOP donor, and owner of Freedom Group, maker of the Bushmaster AR-15, the gun used in the Newtown massacre and the fireman shootings. His silence on the matter and trying to distance himself from the massacre is a little more than telling. In fact, he acts just like a man caught with the smoking gun in his hands.


    Well, you aren't me, so why would you see? Posting it was more for her benefit than yours and obviously, I did google which is how I knew about Freedom Group first and you didn't. doh! But if I were you I wouldn't be bragging about defending people with the blood of innocents on their hands...but then I'm not you.

    The question still stands: why didn't Freedom Group, maker of the Bushmaster AR-15 send their condolences to the Newtown victim's families?

    Oh, such inflammatory language..Tell me, if someone is murdered where the murderer uses a Craftsmen hammer to commit the murder, does Sears, the maker of Craftsmen tools, also "have blood on their hands"?

    Your premise is silly.

    Also, if your "blood on the hands" rhetoric is applicable to all who invested in Freedom Group Inc. then the California Teachers retirement system also has that blood.
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I have no idea how gun dealers run a background check, but I would guess that it involves a check of law enforcement databases for prior activities of the potential firearm purchaser.
    Hypothetically:
    If said background check comes up as “false” (by which I assume you mean, no issues), then the decision to sell or not to sell is up to the gun owner.
    If they then sell an AR 15 to said person
    If that person or someone else who has access to that weapon kills a bunch of people, the fault lies with…
    The person who shot a bunch of people.

    The gun shop owner obviously had no possible way of knowing that the person who purchased the weapon or the person who acquired said weapon from them was going to at some future date kill a bunch of people.
    The law enforcement agents obviously either were not aware of previous incidents which would raise a red flag, or there WERE no previous incidents.

    What are you suggesting here?

    As for the last two lines, regarding patriot act and gun owners, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
    It would seem that everybody that does not want gun control looked at does not know how gun dealers run a background check.
    They just take it for granted that everything is done right?

    So a person who shoots and kills people is soley at fault not where or how the person got the gun???

    So if a nation sells weapons grade plutonium to Iraq , I ran , and the Taliban if anything happens it's the fault of Iraq, Iran, and the Taliban not where the plutomium came from?


    You have read the 2nd amendment?

    Are the words militia and lawfully contained in the 2nd amendment.
    Look up these two words.
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    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Sorry but your answer is an assumption.
    Because before the VT KILLINGS,the gun control laws were then after the VT killing a new gun control law was passed.
    Not only did somebody think gun control law needed a change it was changed it takes a majority to make any change to any law we both know that.

    If in fact you do not know what the "new law" then was or is?
    How is it you know that the new law that was passed did not prevent more innocent people from being shot and killed??
    Just because some preventitive measures are taken and are successful does not mean they show up on T.V..

    I may not know that the new law prevented innocent people from being shot and killed but I remain optomistic that it did.

    While you seem to cling to the same statement made years ago "if it bleeds it leads", anything else is unimportant.
    Just because ten or ten thousand people think something should be done, does not mean that it actually needs to be done. That's all I'm saying here, and there is no assumption involved.

    Not only do I not know anything about said law, I didn't even know a change in law was passed, until it was mentioned in this thread, by you I think. But my point was never that said new law did nothing, but rather that you had no way of knowing it did something, thus claiming it as an example to follow was invalid. And since I never watch TV even if it did show up there I wouldn't have seen it.

    That is perfectly reasonable. But it is still only your opinion.

    I have no idea what your last line is about.
    Education.

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh, such inflammatory language..Tell me, if someone is murdered where the murderer uses a Craftsmen hammer to commit the murder, does Sears, the maker of Craftsmen tools, also "have blood on their hands"?
    Your premise is silly.
    Your premise is silly and stupid. Few if anyone would buy a hammer with the intent to kill hundreds of people. No, they buy a gun. doh!

    Also, if your "blood on the hands" rhetoric is applicable to all who invested in Freedom Group Inc. then the California Teachers retirement system also has that blood.
    California Teachers retirement system is no longer investing in Freedom Group or any company that makes assault weapons...or so they said.

    The question still stands: why didn't Stephen A. Feinberg owner of Freedom Group and maker of the Bushmaster AR-15 send his condolences to the Newtown victim's families? Or the fireman's families? Stay tuned for more victims to be added to Feinberg's growing condolence list.

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Your premise is silly and stupid. Few if anyone would buy a hammer with the intent to kill hundreds of people. No, they buy a gun. doh!
    Complete and utter lunacy. No one "bought" a weapon to kill "hundreds" of people. It was a lone gunman who stole a weapon to kill as many defenseless people as he could. Your strawman is just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    California Teachers retirement system is no longer investing in Freedom Group or any company that makes assault weapons...or so they said.
    Before or after the shooting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The question still stands: why didn't Stephen A. Feinberg owner of Freedom Group and maker of the Bushmaster AR-15 send his condolences to the Newtown victim's families? Or the fireman's families? Stay tuned for more victims to be added to Feinberg's growing condolence list.
    Probably the same reason I did not, it has nothing to do with him or me. Or any other gun manufacturer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    It would seem that everybody that does not want gun control looked at does not know how gun dealers run a background check.
    They just take it for granted that everything is done right?
    What on earth gave you that idea?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    So a person who shoots and kills people is solely at fault not where or how the person got the gun???
    If said person got the gun illegally, then that illegal gun sale is slightly at fault - But if the sale was legal, I don't see how the seller is supposed to know the buyer was planning to commit a crime with the weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    So if a nation sells weapons grade plutonium to Iraq , Iran , and the Taliban if anything happens it's the fault of Iraq, Iran, and the Taliban not where the plutonium came from?
    Different situation. Weapons-grade nuclear material is (or supposedly is) closely monitored, and treaties govern it's proliferation and use. Even so, the majority of the blame of course lies with the entity who used said weapon, rather than the entity who provided the weapon or the materials to make it.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    You have read the 2nd amendment?

    Are the words militia and lawfully contained in the 2nd amendment.
    Look up these two words.
    It's been a few years. Not sure how it bears on this...discussion.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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