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Thread: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!
    I agree, should have been done a long time ago.


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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!
    Somehow I think the victims and their families would disagree with you.


    "...After nearly being killed and becoming permanently disabled as a result of an assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981, Brady became an ardent supporter of gun control."
    James Brady - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Family Of Colorado Shooting Victim Calls For Gun Control Following School Shooting | WBNS-10TV Columbus, Ohio

    Movie theater shooting victim pushes for gun control | WTNH.com Connecticut

    Governor Hickenlooper: 'The Time Is Right' To Talk Gun Laws



    NOW is the time to talk about gun control.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    It's never the right time to talk about gun control in the midst of an ongoing tragedy. Using tragedy as a political club is not only distasteful, it's disrespectful to the victims and their families, who should be the focus of our concern. So please try to contain yourself.
    See, that's the problem. We don't talk about it before the tradedies, we don't talk about it during the tragedies, we don't talk about it after the tragedies. It's not a political issue. It is a problem that needs to be solved to prevent the next tragedy. I think its more disrespectful of the victims to allow thier deaths to be in vain by not talking about what caused their deaths and how we can prevent future tragedies.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    There is no reason for a citizen to have weapons designed to kill in mass.
    What the heck are those, and how do you distinguish these "weapons designed to kill in mass" from other weapons? There are a great many reason for a citizen to own semi-auto rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    Me saying this does not mean I think people should only be able to have muzzle loaded guns. I have no problem with sane law abiding citizens having hand guns, rifles, and or shot guns for protection or hunting.
    Semi automatic rifles? Or bolt action only? How about youth model 22's? What issue do you have with "semi-auto" because the technology is not "designed to kill people in mass."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    I do have a problem with people being able to get online and order thousands of rounds of amo and guns designed to kill in masses in a matter of seconds.
    Thousands of rounds of ammo is not much really, especially if you go shooting once or twice a month and go through at least 300 rounds. When it comes to ordering guns online you must have one delivered to an FFL, and go through the regular NICS check and paperwork.

    It only takes a few dozen, maybe a few hundred to commit a mass shooting. Amounts that would not raise an eyebrow, but people who go to the range buy much more than that regularly online because its cheaper to buy in bulk. You couldn't in any way limit mass murderers, however any attempt to would restrict responsible citizens who practice safe shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    I do have a problem with guns being sold with no background checks. I have a huge problem with people who have a history of violence being able to just go buy a gun and weapon and in a matter of hours kill people.
    So you're opposed to the cash and carry of rifles and shotguns? All guns have background checks, only handguns have waiting periods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    Recently, a man in Florida killed a teenager because his music was too loud and he refused to turn it down. If you can't see there is something wrong, then I don't know what to tell you. If we see there is a problem but are not willing to at least try to find a viable solution then you are a big part of the problem.
    See here is where we disagree. Of course we who are opposed to gun control abhor violence and see something wrong with an insane person breaking the law and harming someone, especially with a firearm.

    As for finding a viable solution, no "common sense gun control" can prevent insane people from doing insane things, criminals will not obey the laws against murder so they will not obey any alleged "viable solution" and all such things do are limit the law abiding gun owner. Much has been passed that still does not stop these mass shootings. In fact evidence indicates that these gun free zones only disarm the law abiding who could make a difference in such target rich environments.

    Magazine limits, waiting periods, background checks, all largely ineffective. Outright bans and confiscations are even worse than gun violence. What works is more good people with guns.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 12-14-12 at 06:45 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    There is another issue here. Where does it say that all shooters are mentally ill? What if a person who has a low stress threshold or low emotional tolerance goes in and buys a gun? He would certainly pass any system check we have now. And then one day something happens and he pops off.

    How are we going to detect that with the system currently in place. NOt at all. We need better evaluations and longer ones such as a behavioral stress test (about a week of testing), even then.

    We just ALL have to admit that this is not working and create a better system instead of living in a delusional world like some or being ostriches.

    Just plain stupid.
    I agree with you 100%. We need to improve our background checks by including a mental test. We require police officers to pass a mental evaluation before we give them guns. I am not against gun ownership of responsible citizens. The key is to determine who is responsibie enough to own a deadly weapon.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    This is a terrible tragedy. I didn't hear the news until later in the afternoon, when the death toll and what had happened was pretty much known, and it all rolled over me like a tidal wave. I felt like someone had gut-punched me, I'm sure I turned pale and looked shocked. It is just inconcievable to me that someone could get so wrong in the head (or heart) as to murder a classroom full of little children. Horrendous, inconcievable, evil act.

    As a parent it just tore a hole in me... I could so easily imagine myself in the place of the parents who lost a child today, and the utter horror and emptiness they must feel, the terrible way that the question "WHY?" must echo through their souls.

    My heart goes out to them, and also my prayers.

    Now we have those who are capitalizing on this tragedy to push their agenda, or who are reacting on emotion to call for instant action of some sort, typically gun control, without taking the time to allow emotions to cool and reason to prevail. To those let me say this: in the heat and heartbreak of such a tragedy is NO TIME to try to set public policy.

    Wild emotion and heated reactions have no place in legislation.

    We have as of yet far too little information to make judgements and decisions that will turn into legislative policy. We have no idea if any form of gun control would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. The odds are it would not have, since guns are readily available on the black market for those who cannot buy legally.

    Many other things have a much better chance of actually CHANGING the outcome of such an event... better school security for starters: I have many questions about how he got in armed and why he was not stopped by an armed school resource officer, questions I as yet have no answers for. In the longer term, changing the way we handle mental illness in this country is very important... HOW did someone get this messed up in the head without someone realizing it and taking steps to intervene?

    But even so, as I said, this is the wrong time for proposing policy or legislation. It will be days or weeks (or longer) before we have enough information to form an accurate picture of how and why this happened, and what could be done that would ACTUALLY help prevent such things, rather than JUST being feel-good actions that won't really change the situation.

    Now is the time to grieve and pray; the time to hug your children and give thanks that they are safe and well; the time to reflect on the preciousness and fragility of life, and to think on those who have lost loved ones today.

    Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.
    If we don't turn it into a political football then we don't even talk about it, let alone change it.. How many changes have been made due to the countless shootings we have had.. Be it a shopping mall, a movie theatre, Virginia Tech, Safeway parking lot, or a kindergarten class?? When is it ok to talk about?? When is it ok to make some changes?? How many more children have to die before it is ok to turn this tragedy into a topic of discussion for change?? When?? When it isn't a member of someone else's family or someone else's child, but one of your own??

    This is the best time to talk about.. How dare you say those 20 children's lives mean nothing.. To mean the are a scream for change.. So how about we get to it!!

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    If we don't turn it into a political football then we don't even talk about it, let alone change it.. How many changes have been made due to the countless shootings we have had.. Be it a shopping mall, a movie theatre, Virginia Tech, Safeway parking lot, or a kindergarten class?? When is it ok to talk about?? When is it ok to make some changes?? How many more children have to die before it is ok to turn this tragedy into a topic of discussion for change?? When?? When it isn't a member of someone else's family or someone else's child, but one of your own??

    This is the best time to talk about.. How dare you say those 20 children's lives mean nothing.. To mean the are a scream for change.. So how about we get to it!!

    First of all, I didn't say those 20 children's lives mean nothing... and only a huge partisan hack would dare imply I said such a thing when I didn't.

    I try not to take things personally on this forum but that **** was totally uncalled for and insulting as hell.


    Who the **** do you think you are putting such heinous words in my mouth? You sure as hell don't know me. You apparently have no clue what I was talking about... or else you just don't care, because you're too caught up in the drama of your personal agenda to know **** from shlock.

    I said that a time of heated passions and heartbreaking loss was no time to try to set public policy, and it isn't. Legislating from hysteria never solves anything and usually creates more problems.

    Get a clue.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    First of all, I didn't say those 20 children's lives mean nothing... and only a huge partisan hack would dare imply I said such a thing when I didn't.

    I try not to take things personally on this forum but that **** was totally uncalled for and insulting as hell.


    Who the **** do you think you are putting such heinous words in my mouth? You sure as hell don't know me. You apparently have no clue what I was talking about... or else you just don't care, because you're too caught up in the drama of your personal agenda to know **** from shlock.

    I said that a time of heated passions and heartbreaking loss was no time to try to set public policy, and it isn't. Legislating from hysteria never solves anything and usually creates more problems.

    Get a clue.
    You have to understand that a lot of people are getting tired of the 'Let's not turn this into a political football' people.. When do we talk about this issue?? How many people have to die before we can turn this into a political football..

    You get a clue!! How many laws were changed in Virginia after 33 people were killed at Virginia tech.??? NONE!!! Not a single law?? So you tell all of us when you will be ready to talk about change in the gun laws?? When will you be ready to take some responsibility for your own views???

    When are you willing to man up to reality.. Instead of calling someone a political hack.. You are damn right it, it is an emotional time.. 18 CHILDREN are dead!! And all you can say is 'Let's not turn this in to a politcal football??' And you tell me to get a clue??

    The problem is, if we don't talk about it now, it never gets talked about.. And you know it.. That is the problem with you right wingers.. It is never a good time to talk about it.. Just as long as it is your family that is killed you are ok with it..

    So tell me I am wrong Goshin!! Tell me when you will be willing to talk about some dramatic changes to the current gun laws in hopes of at least keeping events like this down to a minimum.. Instead of a several times a year occurance it is now..

    There was no insult in my post.. I simply called it like I see it.. You would rather hope and prey than do something that could prevent more people dying.. Read your post yourself.. To you this issue is just a political football.. What an insulting thing to say about 27 people that died today.. It is sure comforting to know that you see them as a politcal football.. You are right it is insulting.. But you are not the one being insulted..

    We should talk about this issue now.. Now is the best time.. Because so many people have died.. And right wingers just can't bring upon themselves to actually seriously talk about this problem..
    Last edited by DemonMyst; 12-14-12 at 09:57 PM.

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    re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    You have to understand that a lot of people are getting of the 'Let's not turn this into a political football' people.. When do we talk about this issue?? How many people have to die before we can turn this into a political football..

    You get a clue!! How many laws were changed in Virginia after 33 people were killed at Virginia tech.??? NONE!!! Not a single law?? So you tell all of us when you will be ready to talk about change in the gun laws?? When will you be ready to take some responsibility for your own views???

    When are you willing to man up to reality.. Instead of calling someone a political hack.. You are damn right it, it is an emotional time.. 18 CHILDREN


    Legislating from hysteria is foolish... and your posts certainly sound hysterical, and not in the funny way either.

    Fine, if you're going to insist on instantly politicizing a tragedy with dead children.... tell me what gun control law would have prevented this crime, and I'll tell you why it is unlikely to work.


    Real solutions that will actually make a real difference are not going to be found in sound-bite hysteria, but in careful and reasoned thought after the passions have cooled.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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