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Thread: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

  1. #391
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    You must have a lot of unstable friends in your life, so I guess you life must be pretty easy pickens for unstable people.

    My point sir is you would know if a person was unstable ;you would not trust just anybody with your pin number to your ATM card would you?
    You would not let just anybody stay at your house would you?

    Would you let a drug dealer date your daughter?

    And you are just an average citizen , gun dealers should have the same knowledge should they not?
    Nice legal terminology there, skippy. But at least you are honest in your desire to not sell any guns. So a gun dealer should not sell a gun to anyone that they would not allow to stay in their home, date their daughter and offer their pin number to. They would remain in business for about half a day because, after that, their pool of eligible customers (very close friends and distant relatives?) is likely to have been exhausted.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Nice legal terminology there, skippy. But at least you are honest in your desire to not sell any guns. So a gun dealer should not sell a gun to anyone that they would not allow to stay in their home, date their daughter and offer their pin number to. They would remain in business for about half a day because, after that, their pool of eligible customers (very close friends and distant relatives?) is likely to have been exhausted.
    I'm just waiting to hear about the ACLU suing a gun store owner because he refused to sell a gun to someone because of racial profiling.

  3. #393
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    I'm just waiting to hear about the ACLU suing a gun store owner because he refused to sell a gun to someone because of racial profiling.
    The only color, according to many liberals, that they care about is US mint green.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The only color, according to many liberals, that they care about is US mint green.
    I dunno, boy -- you passed the background check, but there's just sumpthin' about you I don't like...

  5. #395
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    Both of those are perfectly sound reasons to oppose a proposal - what sense is there to have a law that doesn't work, violates the constitution, or both?
    You can not sell a gun to a criminal that is the law. violates the constitution
    Why would you want to sell a gun who's going to violate the constitution?
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    You can not sell a gun to a criminal that is the law
    To someone you have reason to suspect is a criminal, yes.
    But, my point was much, much broader.

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Nice legal terminology there, skippy. But at least you are honest in your desire to not sell any guns. So a gun dealer should not sell a gun to anyone that they would not allow to stay in their home, date their daughter and offer their pin number to. They would remain in business for about half a day because, after that, their pool of eligible customers (very close friends and distant relatives?) is likely to have been exhausted.
    Well, well another spin doctor what do you guys do take a test or something?

    I've debated with some of the best spin doctors on this forum, and I gotta tell ya you ain't one of them junior.

    The old attage "business is business" was what you were spinning toward I take it man's gotta make a living ect ect.
    Heard that before , but where does it stop?
    As you said wouldn't sell a gun to anyone that does this or fits this profile he would be out of business???
    Question ; what kind of person could not buy a gun from a gun dealer legally?

    Arms dealers foreign and domestic make more than any imported exported product including drugs

    So somewhere in there is American gun sales , take away the criminal gun sales and you still have quite a chunk of change.

    Question Criminals sell guns , where do they get the guns to sell?

    Question Can a gun dealer be bribed to sell a gun illegally?
    AFTER ALL BUSINESS IS BUSINESS
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  8. #398
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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    I wrong it is constitutional for responsible people to have the right to own guns , it is not constitutional for criminals or irresponsible people to have that right.
    How do you determine who the "irresponsible" people are? Can you?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    2. How do you know it would do more harm it has yet to be tried.
    Way I look at it.
    On the one hand, the purpose, or "good" that it supposedly does - preventing or limiting access to firearms (and/or specific types of firearms) for people who are somehow determined to be untrustworthy in that regard.
    Sure, you can say "oh this guy was convicted of X, he can't buy a gun". But what about the person who was never even charged with anything, let alone convicted, yet is purchasing a firearm to go on a murder spree? And even if you somehow could identify that person, he could just go purchase a firearm illegally, or steal one.
    In short, this "good" is half-assed at best, and won't really do much more than possibly provide a very slight reduction in gun crimes.

    Which brings us to the other hand, the “harm” that gun control does – If you eliminate the ability for a person to purchase a firearm to defend themselves, then when/if a criminal who acquired a firearm illegally tries to kill them, they are defenseless. If you greatly restrict the ability, via limits, licenses, etc, it does the same thing but to a lesser degree.
    Further, if you eliminate guns or greatly restrict them, criminals or potential criminals will be more likely to attack someone who they feel relatively sure does not have a method to defend themselves. It’s a risk-vs-reward calculation – if I want to rob a house, am I going to choose the one with $100,000 in jewels but an armed owner? Or the one with $50,000 but no defense? Sure I might get twice the reward from house A, but at the same time I might get killed. Of course in reality most criminals try to hit a house when it has no one inside. And that is, IMO, mainly BECAUSE people might have firearms, etc.

    In short, gun control harms law-abiding citizens more than it does criminals. Thus bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Wanting a gun for personal defense is one thing, wanting a gun to kill innocent people or to just leave a gun laying around that anybody could pick up is another.
    But how can you possibly regulate that? Inspect people’s houses on a yearly basis?

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    If America does not try new vendors or new ways where will America end up ?
    Why cause somebody says it won't work.
    I've heard that "it won't work” phrase a lot in my life and history is littered with "it won't work" scenarios that actually did work.
    This isn’t one of them.
    I cannot be sure, as I have not made an exhaustive study of this subject, but I suspect someone who has could link and quote proof or at the least indications which show that gun control does more harm than good. Of course much of that is subjective, but from what I have read/heard/seen, it’s enough to convince me.
    ---------
    Of course, I don’t think turning all our schools into fallout bunkers will work either.
    Education.

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Well, well another spin doctor what do you guys do take a test or something?

    I've debated with some of the best spin doctors on this forum, and I gotta tell ya you ain't one of them junior.

    The old attage "business is business" was what you were spinning toward I take it man's gotta make a living ect ect.
    Heard that before , but where does it stop?
    As you said wouldn't sell a gun to anyone that does this or fits this profile he would be out of business???
    Question ; what kind of person could not buy a gun from a gun dealer legally?

    Arms dealers foreign and domestic make more than any imported exported product including drugs

    So somewhere in there is American gun sales , take away the criminal gun sales and you still have quite a chunk of change.

    Question Criminals sell guns , where do they get the guns to sell?

    Question Can a gun dealer be bribed to sell a gun illegally?
    AFTER ALL BUSINESS IS BUSINESS
    The kind of person that is not a resident of the state of purchase (some exceptions to this apply) and that an NICS check indicates is not a US citizen, has had a violent felony conviction, was designated as having dometic abuse issues or was certified as mentally deficient. Beyond that, I know of no other legal reason for a FFL dealer to deny the sale of a gun. As you should be aware, after that purchaser leaves that FFL dealer's sight, they are free to do as they please with that gun, with no further paperwork involved, or responsibility lies with that FFL dealer. Do some FFL dealers violate the law? Probably, but that is not my concern, that is why we have the BATFE.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: 26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

    Quote Originally Posted by H. Lee White View Post
    To someone you have reason to suspect is a criminal, yes.
    But, my point was much, much broader.
    Broader? how so?

    In case you haven't been reading my post I am an Independent.

    I support the 2nd amendment,and the right to own arms. for defencive purposes, I support abortion , I support the death penalty.

    I do not support selling guns to irresponsible people that winds up making innocent people and children dead.

    Too many times in the past people as ask for an investigation for strickter gun control too many times we were accused of breaking the constitutional rights of the people.
    Columbine innocent people dead
    Flint a child shot by a child
    Virginia Tech College students dead
    Aurora movie goers shot and killed
    New Town 26 innocent 20 under the age of 7
    Penn.
    and the list get larger.

    We ask about not stopping the right to own guns or to defend yourself with guns we ask about the current gun control.

    Our answer after the killings at Conn, the same answer we got after Columbine , Flint, Virginia Tech Aurora.

    The current gun control laws are working fine, it's the crazies fault,you're trying to take away my constitutional right according to the 2nd amendment, from my col dead hands, oh look the libs are whining again blah blah blah.
    Meanwhile there are 20 innocent kids dead in Conn.
    as well as other places shot with guns purchased legally.

    I've heard a lot of talk about if you can't take care of a child you should not have one I AGREE

    IF A PERSON DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF A GUN THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PURCHASE ONE I AGREE WITH THAT AS WELL.
    Tiki bar regular.
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    Never take anything you don't need ,never want anything you can't have

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