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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

PirateMk1 said:
What I thought. Thats the same reason 9/11 happened. No one stood up.
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So that's what happend on 9/11 huh? Let me que you in on reality. The people on those two flights had no idea they were flying into towers and were in fact told they were in a hostage situation. So they had no clue that there was a need to stand up. The ones that knew they were headed into a building stood up and that plan ended up in a field in Pennsyvlania.

I'll say that it's every bit worth the warning I'm about to get for saying this. You are ****ing moron and our society is as brave as it's ever been and the only ***** I see here is you with this condscending full of **** hate America post.
 
lizzie said:
The initial question that the bolded is a response to, was about the preparedness of the adults. Reading is your friend. As for whether or not you agree with me, there is no doubt that our society is being conditioned not to react to violence with violence in return, and unfortunately, it's creating victims.
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So, how exactly does that apply to this situation?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
There have been multiple reports of adults who "fought back" in some way or another. The first two people killed ran into the hallway to see what was happening and address the situation - one of them, the principal, turned on the PA system to alert the rest of the school and was then killed. Another woman put herself in front of a door that didn't have a lock and was shot twice because of it. Another teacher pulled two students who were in the hallway with bullets going right by them into her room and locked the door. Another woman put students into a closet while the gunman was shouting "let me in". I think all of that counts as "fighting back" in some way.

Now, if your only definition of "fighting back" is going up to a guy with guns, a mask and bullet proof vest and trying to disarm him, then I'm not sure, but I don't know why the **** you would dismiss people in a freaking elementary school of all places as being ****ing "sheep" if they didn't. I don't get that mad at all the pro and anti gun nuts calling for their respective policy changes, but what PISSES ME OFF every single time one of these shootings happen is when people criticize or in some way denigrate the people who were being attacked. These people were in a damn elementary school and they probably did their best to protect their children and themselves in an unbelievably extraordinary circumstance and then people like you have the gall (when you clearly haven't even done much research) to insinuate that if they didn't react the way you think they should, then they are "sheep" or they weren't "defending their charges". Jesus ****ing Christ.
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Well sir I didnt know for sure. Thats WHY I asked. If they were huddled in a corner then quite frankly my question is valid. If they did do these things you said then good. Whether you like it or not, their actions bad or good, NEED to be examined, so we may learn. Did they have protocals? If so where they implimented, and if so did they mitgate or succeed in someway or did they fail? I do have the gall to ask these questions, because they need to be asked. I dont know what happened in detail there at the school. No one does yet. I want to know HOW so many where killed, and where the intervention was during that time. If this school had no protcals at all especially considering past events, then there is a MAJOR problem. I dont expect people to be Rambo, but I do expect them do ALL they can to insure the survival of their charges. These circumstances while extrodinary are NOT unknown.
 
zstep18 said:
So, the reason Connecticut happened was peoples unwillingness to defend themselves?

You know we're talking about guns and children, right?
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Cut the BS. Are you claiming there were no adults in the school ? Six were killed. Are they now like "poof" in your world ?

Its not that no one chose to "stand-up", as I do not want to confuse terms. Its that none could stand up in an effective way. CN has the fourth toughest gun laws in the country. And even if they were more lenient, I doubt they would allow the Principle, and Vice-Principle, to pack heat. Point being, no one "stood up" because they can't in CN.

If perps knew that every school had a few pistol-packing folks within, we'd have less such mass murders. How many less ? I don't know. But as with fire prevention, the number of fatalities due to fires would go down.
 
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Eighty Deuce said:
Cut the BS. Are you claiming there were no adults in the school ? Six were killed. Are they now like "poof" in your world ?
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You mean people like the principal of the school who did all she could to keep the children safe?

Yeah, we're just a nation of wussies.....:roll:
 
zstep18 said:
You mean people like the principal of the school who did all she could to keep the children safe?

Yeah, we're just a nation of wussies.....:roll:
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I edited in more explanation while your were quoting my shorter answer.

I fault no one in that school. Many were true heroes before they died.

That is not the point though.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Well sir I didnt know for sure. Thats WHY I asked. If they were huddled in a corner then quite frankly my question is valid. If they did do these things you said then good. Whether you like it or not, their actions bad or good, NEED to be examined, so we may learn. Did they have protocals? If so where they implimented, and if so did they mitgate or succeed in someway or did they fail? I do have the gall to ask these questions, because they need to be asked. I dont know what happened in detail there at the school. No one does yet. I want to know HOW so many where killed, and where the intervention was during that time. If this school had no protcals at all especially considering past events, then there is a MAJOR problem. I dont expect people to be Rambo, but I do expect them do ALL they can to insure the survival of their charges. These circumstances while extrodinary are NOT unknown.
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The school had protocols, but they involved how they go about letting people into the building. Here is a letter the deceased Principal previously sent to the parents:

Dear Members of our Sandy Hook Family,

Our district will be implementing a security system in all elementary schools as part of our ongoing efforts to ensure student safety. As usual, exterior doors will be locked during the day. Every visitor will be required to ring the doorbell at the front entrance and the office staff will use a visual monitoring system to allow entry. Visitors will still be required to report directly to the office and sign in. If our office staff does not recognize you, you will be required to show identification with a picture id. Please understand that with nearly 700 students and over 1000 parents representing 500 SHS families, most parents will be asked to show identification.

Doors will be locked at approximately 9:30 a.m. Any student arriving after that time must be walked into the building and signed in at the office. Before that time our regular drop-off procedures will be in place. I encourage all parents to have their children come to school and return home on the bus and to remain in school for the entire school day. The beginning and ending of our school day are also important instructional times and therefore we want all our students to reap the benefits of full participation in our program.

We need your help and cooperation for our system to work effectively. Our office staff is handling multiple tasks. Though they will work diligently to help you into the building as quickly as possible, there may be a short delay until someone can view you on the handset and allow you to come in electronically. There are times during the day when office personnel are on the telephone, addressing student concerns, or in the copy room; there are other times when only one person is in the front office. Please help our staff by identifying yourself and provide your child’s name.

Keep in mind we will be following our district guidelines which may need revision once we test the system.

Please know your involvement continues to be critical to our school’s effectiveness and your child’s success. We continue to encourage and value your presence in our classrooms and are counting on your cooperation with the implementation of this safety initiative.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Hochsprung
Newtown School Dustrict Had Recently Installed New Safety Protocols « CBS New York
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For reasons unknown, the gunman was allowed to enter the school.
 
Mycroft said:
The school had protocols, but they involved how they go about letting people into the building. Here is a letter the deceased Principal previously sent to the parents:

For reasons unknown, the gunman was allowed to enter the school.
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We will learn more with time, but I heard it suggested tonight that, as a child of an instructor, he may have been known as a visitor. No one could have predicted the unfolding horror from the son of a teacher. A uniquely tragic scenario was quickly unfolding.
 
Yes. The phrase I've heard all day was "facial recognition." The shooter lived with his mother, and so he may have been up at the school from time to time as so many kids whose parents are teachers are.
 
Lutherf said:
Perhaps we need to evolve our culture into one where personal responsibility is respected, encouraged and promoted rather than this cesspool where excuses are made for every damned **** up and where people turn first to the government to "solve" all that ails them.
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In an Idealistic world, this would work. However, reality has proven time and time again that the majority of people are idiots. Idiots + guns = bad situation.
 
Lutherf said:
The people that do this kind of thing intentionally pick "soft" targets. When the urge to become a spree killer hits these people inevitably head to a school or a shopping mall or some other public place. You don't see them heading to police stations or other areas where their rampage is more likely to get cut short.

The other part of the equation is that behavior like this is usually unpredictable. It's like trying to judge when and where an earthquake will happen. You can see all the factors that make it a possibility but judging when to make the call to evacuate is pretty much impossible. I'd like nothing better than to prevent these lunatics from obtaining implements of destruction but that can't be accomplished without taking away other rights and justifying the "reasonableness" of taking away any rights is tentative at best.

The facts of the matter are that the vast majority of people are law abiding, sane and rational. Some small percentage of people are not. It's is the antithesis of freedom to apply judgement and consequences to the whole of a population simply because a limited percentage will not abide by the common rules of the society.
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Tell that to airport security
 
Cilogy said:
Another terrible and unnecessary shooting, another year without SOME form of gun control. I really don't mean to politicize it, but that's honestly the very first thing that came to mind when I heard about this.

We can't sit idly by while the gun lobby and politicians say "oops, well, there's nothing that can be done
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"

Something's gotta be done man, something's gotta be done.
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Without some form of gun control?? You mean besides the 20,000+ laws that already exist?

What additional laws do you think there needs to be that would have prevented this tragedy?
 
Caine said:
That is exactly the type of society I do NOT want to live in.
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Why, billions of other people seem to get along just fine all around the world where guns are illegal. Hell.. In china, just recently, a man walked into a school and stabbed 20 kids... they were all injured instead of killed.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let me re-iterate, this thread is not for discussion of gun control or gun control laws (either existing or proposed). There is a forum for that.
 
Capster78 said:
Why, billions of other people seem to get along just fine all around the world where guns are illegal. Hell.. In china, just recently, a man walked into a school and stabbed 20 kids... they were all injured instead of killed.
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Apparently you have missed all the stories of genocide in the last couple decades when you were at Camp Kumbaya
 
zstep18 said:
So, the reason Connecticut happened was peoples unwillingness to defend themselves?

You know we're talking about guns and children, right?
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Yes when you are placed in charge of children you are given implicet trust too ensure their saftey. What was done to this? I am curious. Was there a protocal dealing with this type of situattion? They have protocals for fires and all sorts of natural distastors. These shootings are not an unknown occrurance so what did they do to mitigate it?
 
Hugh_Akston said:
Moderator's Warning:
Let me re-iterate, this thread is not for discussion of gun control or gun control laws (either existing or proposed). There is a forum for that.
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Just for the masses, where would be the forum where these things can be discussed? I did not see a gun control / gun laws forum.
 
Mycroft said:
The school had protocols, but they involved how they go about letting people into the building. Here is a letter the deceased Principal previously sent to the parents:



For reasons unknown, the gunman was allowed to enter the school.
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Ok, so what was the protocal for this type of situtaion. There have been school shootings we do have terrosit threats, so they should have some sort of protacal shouldnt they?
 
Capster78 said:
In an Idealistic world, this would work. However, reality has proven time and time again that the majority of people are idiots. Idiots + guns = bad situation.
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That's simply not true.

Everybody does something stupid now and again. Some people are more prone to accidents than others for a variety of reasons but generally speaking they are not idiots.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Ok, so what was the protocal for this type of situtaion. There have been school shootings we do have terrosit threats, so they should have some sort of protacal shouldnt they?
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shrug...

I gave you what I know.
 
YoungConserv said:
Again why aren't we discussing why ten adults where denied by law any right to defend themselves.
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Huh?

perhaps many of us are thinking about other things right now. Like what a hollow and heartbreaking Christmas this will be for all of these families. How the heartache will continue for untold years. What a sad day this is.
 
A key point may be that the shooter was a teacher's kid. I work in a building with all sorts of protocols, but tonight I sent my kid up to my office with my key to the building. Cops know her. Heck, everybody has known her since she was little. She even drives my old car, which is also familiar to security personnel even if she doesn't have my hang-tag. Unless I told them differently, the ordinary rules wouldn't apply to her because she's my kid.
 
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