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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

Not willing? He killed her.
yeah you figured it out. someone willing to kill his mother is going to get a gun. and she probably couldn't have stopped it.
 
Actually you are entirely wrong; it does not.
cough cough....


Increases in gun ownership lead to a higher gun-homicide rate and legislation allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons does not reduce crime, according to a recent NBER Working Paper by Mark Duggan. After peaking in 1993, gun homicides in the United States dropped 36 percent by 1998, while non-gun homicides declined only 18 percent. In that same period, the fraction of households with at least one gun fell from more than 42 percent to less than 35 percent. Duggan finds that about one-third of the gun-homicide decline since 1993 is explained by the fall in gun ownership. The largest declines occur in areas with the largest reductions in firearm ownership.
 
yeah you figured it out. someone willing to kill his mother is going to get a gun. and she probably couldn't have stopped it.
Oh...I thought it was " she was not willing to stop him"

Keep on modifying what you tell yourself.
 
cough cough....


Increases in gun ownership lead to a higher gun-homicide rate and legislation allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons does not reduce crime, according to a recent NBER Working Paper by Mark Duggan. After peaking in 1993, gun homicides in the United States dropped 36 percent by 1998, while non-gun homicides declined only 18 percent. In that same period, the fraction of households with at least one gun fell from more than 42 percent to less than 35 percent. Duggan finds that about one-third of the gun-homicide decline since 1993 is explained by the fall in gun ownership. The largest declines occur in areas with the largest reductions in firearm ownership.



And there are other studies (Lott, Kleck) that show the exact opposite.... but all studies, yours or mine, are often suspect due to pre-existing agendas.

You ignore the fact that many other nations have homicide rates far higher than our own with only a fraction of the gun ownership rates.


Apparently Gimmesometruth can't handle the truth. :doh
 
Which is why we encourage well-informed and safe gun ownership, and the use of safes and such to secure guns not in one's immediate possession.



Of course, you can't make anything proof against determined intent to harm... and he could have just as easily used a homemade bomb or a sword bought on Ebay and killed about as many.

I totally agree. I believe in it so much, that I support/advocate including gun safety in schools at a minimum of three different levels. Elementary, Junior High and High School.

Thankfully, he, nor the others who have committed such crimes have chosen to use explosive properly. If the ones who did build explosives would of used them grenade fashion, things would of been phenomenally worse. And if they had taken terrorist actions in the use of explosives, it would be even worse than that. Most people just do not understand that a gun is a very inefficient way to kill large numbers of people. More efficient than a knife, sword or axe, but still grossly inefficient.
 
Actually it has happened. Long Island Ferry, early 80s as I recall. Was much talked about problem in the Phillipines in the 1970s.

Then there's the guy in Atlanta that killed 4 with a hammer.


It isn't the tool, it is the murderer.
oh...."4"...with a "hammer"

Yeah...

pfffft.....cough
 
cough cough....Increases in gun ownership lead to a higher gun-homicide rate and legislation allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons does not reduce crime, according to a recent NBER Working Paper by Mark Duggan. After peaking in 1993, gun homicides in the United States dropped 36 percent by 1998, while non-gun homicides declined only 18 percent. In that same period, the fraction of households with at least one gun fell from more than 42 percent to less than 35 percent. Duggan finds that about one-third of the gun-homicide decline since 1993 is explained by the fall in gun ownership. The largest declines occur in areas with the largest reductions in firearm ownership.
sounds like an outcome based propaganda piece. over 12 million more guns were sold as a result of the clinton anti gun agenda and then the Obama election. and yet accidental deaths have decreased along with crime. I know dozens of people who have bought guns and deny owning them when asked.and what your idiotic study ignores is the difference between legal gun ownership and illegal gun ownership
 
Frack.

I swore when I logged on this afternoon that I wasn't going to get dragged into a back-and-forth BS with anti-gunners, and it happened anyway. I wanted to respect this terrible tragedy and allow the victims and their families some dignity... and I got sucked into this horse shyte.


Damn it. I'm done with this crap for the night, I'm not getting drawn into any more of this hysteria.
 
And there are other studies (Lott, Kleck) that show the exact opposite.... but all studies, yours or mine, are often suspect due to pre-existing agendas.

You ignore the fact that many other nations have homicide rates far higher than our own with only a fraction of the gun ownership rates.


Apparently Gimmesometruth can't handle the truth. :doh
LOL...yeah....3rd world states.

FFS
 
Frack.

I swore when I logged on this afternoon that I wasn't going to get dragged into a back-and-forth BS with anti-gunners, and it happened anyway. I wanted to respect this terrible tragedy and allow the victims and their families some dignity... and I got sucked into this horse shyte.


Damn it. I'm done with this crap for the night, I'm not getting drawn into any more of this hysteria.
cough...
 
Oh...I thought it was " she was not willing to stop him"Keep on modifying what you tell yourself.
I guess when standard leftwing paradigms fail to be able to justify more gun control lies despite having such a juicy tragedy for which liberals can use to bash gun owners, you are gonna be upset.
 
oh...."4"...with a "hammer"

Yeah...

pfffft.....cough


Bud, you're pissing me off. If you want to call me a liar why don't you come to my mother****ing house and say it to my face.



I am so ****ing done with you.
 
sounds like an outcome based propaganda piece.
Indeed.
Every year, the number of guns in the US increases by millions, and yet the number of gun-related murders remains nearly constant -- proof that more guns does not equal more gun-related homicde.
 
LOL...yeah....3rd world states.

FFS

Use some logic. If you want your kid to die while you abide by some bull**** whining ninny sissypants rule, go ahead.

What a ****ing useless society when it can't use simple logic not only to protect kids, but keep free people armed and safe. Not having guns at school at all will simply keep them what they are: A target rich environment for cowards who want to kill someone

Of course there's a big "Weapon Free Zone" sign on the school. That sure helps
 
I spend at least several hours a week during the winter months in a big gun shop because its the range where I shoot. And gun sales are very very high right now. The election of Obama caused huge numbers of guns to be purchased just as the clinton gun laws did. And there is a gun show in Cincinnati near that range tomorrow and I expect large crowds because people understand that the hysterical left as well as the machiavellian control freaks love disasters like this mass murder massacre to fuel their anti gun owner jihads. Yet its true, with more and more guns bought by honest people and more and more of us carrying concealed weapons, the murder or gun violence rate has not increased
 
Use some logic. If you want your kid to die while you abide by some bull**** whining ninny sissypants rule, go ahead.

What a ****ing useless society when it can't use simple logic not only to protect kids, but keep free people armed and safe. Not having guns at school at all will simply keep them what they are: A target rich environment for cowards who want to kill someone

Of course there's a big "Weapon Free Zone" sign on the school. That sure helps
Yes, thats the answer...INCREASE the availability of weapons....in areas where kids are!

BRILLIANT!!!
 
I am going to ask a serious question here. Eight adults along with 20 of their very defenceless charges are dead. I know they didnt have a gun in the school to defend themselves. Did ANY official or teacher in that school MAKE ANY attempt to DEFEND their charges or themselves regardless of their lack of firearms. I learned a LONG time ago when I was much younger that when in death ground there is only one thing to do. FIGHT. HARD. Are people becoming sheep now? Do they not know to defend themselves when in mortal danger? I find it distubing to say the least the ADULTS did very little to defend their charges. Maybe people think I am nuts for brinnging this up, but when people are dying about you it might be a good time figure out how to foil your killers plans or at least put up a fight to maybe encourage them to find easier pickings, there things other than guns that can be improvised into a weopon. Maybe these things occured here. It doesnt seem like it though. I am dismayed at how easy it is for someone to do these mass killings and few if any respond with a fight reflex. Why is it that people dont fight?
 
Yes, thats the answer...INCREASE the availability of weapons....in areas where kids are!BRILLIANT!!!
you lefties continue to want environments where the only person armed is someone intending and able to massacre innocents.
 
I am going to ask a serious question here. Eight adults along with 20 of their very defenceless charges are dead. I know they didnt have a gun in the school to defend themselves. Did ANY official or teacher in that school MAKE ANY attempt to DEFEND their charges or themselves regardless of their lack of firearms. I learned a LONG time ago when I was much younger that when in death ground there is only one thing to do. FIGHT. HARD. Are people becoming sheep now? Do they not know to defend themselves when in mortal danger? I find it distubing to say the least the ADULTS did very little to defend their charges. Maybe people think I am nuts for brinnging this up, but when people are dying about you it might be a good time figure out how to foil your killers plans or at least put up a fight to maybe encourage them to find easier pickings, there things other than guns that can be improvised into a weopon. Maybe these things occured here. It doesnt seem like it though. I am dismayed at how easy it is for someone to do these mass killings and few if any respond with a fight reflex. Why is it that people dont fight?

People are being programmed to be followers, minus critical thinking. It's tragic to think that the adults in this situation were so woefully unprepared. But who is to say any of us would have or could have acted differently. I am angered, but mostly still in shock. I'm still not sure how to process this news.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's put an end to the baiting, flaming, trolling and personal attacks. If you want to debate gun control, there is a forum for that. Stick to the topic and cease with the attacks or else.
 
LOL...yeah....3rd world states.

FFS

Actually, gun ownership, by percentage was higher in the late 1800s, early 1900s before the adoption of laws not stating that all male citizens were expected to participate in militias. The incidence, contrary to Western Movies, of violent crime was at a very low point. Almost immediately after the passage of that law, violent crime exploded in America.

So, we have historical evidence that when gun ownership was high, violent crime was low, as gun ownership decreased, violent crime increased. Over the last century, violent crime has not decreased to the level it was in 1900, nor has gun ownership (by percentage, not actual numbers) reached the same level.
 
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