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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

H. Lee White said:
Simple. Their position on guns is not at all motivated by a concern for public safety.
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of course not-they might spew that claim in order to convince the weak minded and the emotional but their goal is to stick it to people who tend not to agree with them on other issues
 
TurtleDude said:
I have been dealing with anti gun hysterics for decades and this is probably the most idiotic comment I have ever seen come out of a gun hater
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id like to second this accurate description of that testament.

Ive never seen a statement so void of rational and logic before. That type of ignorance is simply asinine.
 
Saboteur said:
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?
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Hysterical, unfactual, lies, hyperbole, emotionalism, nonsense, projection, paranoia, hoplophobia, total lack of understanding about tens of millions of people... I don't know that I have ever seen someone pack a single post with so much idiocy and untruth.
 
Saboteur said:
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?
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the ignorance, irrationality and total uneducated nature of a statement like this is both perplexing and sad.
 
H. Lee White said:
My ownership/possession of a gun does not harm you.
My owernship/possession of a gun does not place you in a condition of clear present and immediate danger.
Thus, your argument fails.
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Hmm.. no response from Saboteur.
 
Getting out of the anti/pro gun debate it is very sobering to know that there is a team of medical examiners at this time I am writing this in the classrooms examining the young bodies. Kind of takes the wind out of ones debating sails.
 
H. Lee White said:
Simple.
Their position on guns is not at all motivated by a concern for public safety.
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That was probably the motivation for the Mom having the guns in her house.

Interesting how that backfires..huh?
 
H. Lee White said:
My ownership/possession of a gun does not harm you.
My owernship/possession of a gun does not place you in a condition of clear present and immediate danger.

Thus, your argument fails.
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That is..until someone takes it...and uses it.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That was probably the motivation for the Mom having the guns in her house.Interesting how that backfires..huh?
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she apparently was not willing to stop a nut case who was her son. tell me, do you think someone willing to kill his own mother to get weapons, was going to be deterred by a gun ban? all the silly laws liberals love do is to disarm honest people
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That is..until someone takes it...and uses it.
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Which is why we encourage well-informed and safe gun ownership, and the use of safes and such to secure guns not in one's immediate possession.



Of course, you can't make anything proof against determined intent to harm... and he could have just as easily used a homemade bomb or a sword bought on Ebay and killed about as many.
 
TurtleDude said:
she apparently was not willing to stop a nut case who was her son. tell me, do you think someone willing to kill his own mother to get weapons, was going to be deterred by a gun ban? all the silly laws liberals love do is to disarm honest people
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Not willing? He killed her.
 
We live in a crazy world, with crazy people and crazy weapons and it's crazy times and little children have to die and suffer...and for what? The Second Amendment.

It's time to amend the amendment in a reasonable and thoughtful way.
 
TurtleDude said:
she apparently was not willing to stop a nut case who was her son. tell me, do you think someone willing to kill his own mother to get weapons, was going to be deterred by a gun ban? all the silly laws liberals love do is to disarm honest people
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We already know the answer, since the school was a "gun free zone". The irony of the failure of that edict to protect the children is beyond explanation... words on paper are no shield against determined evil.
 
TurtleDude said:
that's a failure of training not a failure of gun laws.
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I was not talking about "gun laws".

My comment was more about the general availability of guns in this country.

The chance of homicide rises dramatically when guns are around.
 
TurtleDude said:
that's a failure of training not a failure of gun laws.
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And irrelevant to the point.
MY posession/ownership causes no harm; MY posession/ownership places no on in clear, present and immediate danger.
As such, there's no constitutionally sound argument for the restriction of MY possession/ownership as right are lmited only when an exercise falls under one of those classifications.
 
Uzidoesit said:
We live in a crazy world, with crazy people and crazy weapons and it's crazy times and little children have to die and suffer...and for what? The Second Amendment.

It's time to amend the amendment in a reasonable and thoughtful way.
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No, it isn't. It is time to let emotions cool so that reason can prevail once the hysteria winds down.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That was probably the motivation for the Mom having the guns in her house.

Interesting how that backfires..huh?
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I suspect that he was ordering them in her name, at least the AR15, if that came from her house. I have trouble believing a kindergarten teacher in CT would just happen to have one of those things.
 
Uzidoesit said:
We live in a crazy world, with crazy people and crazy weapons and it's crazy times and little children have to die and suffer...and for what? The Second Amendment.
It's time to amend the amendment in a reasonable and thoughtful way.
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Tell us:
What sort of "common sense gun control" would have stopped this?
 
Goshin said:
Which is why we encourage well-informed and safe gun ownership, and the use of safes and such to secure guns not in one's immediate possession.



Of course, you can't make anything proof against determined intent to harm... and he could have just as easily used a homemade bomb or a sword bought on Ebay and killed about as many.
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Yeah, I read about multiple homicides brought about by swords all the time....

Pass that over here
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I was not talking about "gun laws".

My comment was more about the general availability of guns in this country.

The chance of homicide rises dramatically when guns are around.
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Actually you are entirely wrong; it does not. The availability of firearms appears to have no effect at all on the homicide rate.

As many times as I've had to post this, it doesn't shock me to have to post it again... but it does upset me to have to belabor this point in the middle of such a tragedy...

I will list the top nations in order of rates of intentional homicide, also showing their rates of private gun ownership, then show the USA by contrast.

Name.... homicide rate per 100,000.... gun ownership rate per 100.

Honduras... 91.6... 6.2
El Salvador... 69.2 ... 5.8
Cote d'Ivoire... 56.9 ... not listed
Jamaica... 52.2 ... 8.1
Venezuela ... 45.1 ... 10.7
Belize ... 41.1 ... 10
Virgin Islands ... 39.2 ... not listed
Guatemala ... 38.5 ... 13.1
skipping down a bit...
Columbia ... 33.4 ... 5.9
South Africa... 31.8 ... 12.7
skipping down some more...
Greenland ... 19.2 ... not listed
Russia ... 10.2 ... 8.9
skipping down some more...
Ukraine.... 5.2 ... 6.6
Cuba... 5.0 ... 4.8

And finally, well over halfway down the list...

USA... 4.2 ... 88.8


Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As it turns out, the United States does not have that high of a homicide rate compared to most other countries, and given the amount of privately owned arms we are FAR more peaceable than most on a per-gun-owned basis.

OBVIOUSLY, gun ownership is NOT directly linked to murder rates.
 
H. Lee White said:
Tell us:
What sort of "common sense gun control" would have stopped this?
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Whatever has to be done or could be done to keep guns out of the hands of unstable people. I don't have the answer, but there have to be people in this country who can come up with an answer that we can all live with and keep innocent people safe, for chrissakes.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Yeah, I read about multiple homicides brought about by swords all the time....

Pass that over here
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Actually it has happened. Long Island Ferry, early 80s as I recall. Was much talked about problem in the Phillipines in the 1970s.

Then there's the guy in Atlanta that killed 4 with a hammer.


It isn't the tool, it is the murderer.
 
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