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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

Kinda proves the point I was making to a degree.
Even with enhanced security, someone with bad intent will do bad things.
Yeah, that was my point, but I was super vague and unclear, so it didn't come across. In any case, I agree. Security doesn't necessarily stop people who are determined to do harm. Considering that this guy was wearing a bullet proof vest, he could have even gotten through armed guards if he wanted to. It's just a mess.
 
When are we going to wake up and realize that gun free zones are nothing but shooting galleries for the insane people who would do such a thing? If a single teacher or visitor had been armed, how many could of been saved?

Or you can argue that if the shooter's mom didn't have the guns in her house many could have been saved. Or we argue and argue. And if he didn't have a gun he could have easily built a home made bomb to just quickly toss in a classroom. I think the only thing people can do is become more and more aware of their surroundings and people.
 
We'll never be able to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands. I won't ever own a gun, nor do I like being around them. But stricter gun laws won't do a bit of good. What we need is regulation on buying the ammo for guns. A gun is useless without a bullet and right now you can buy bullets really easy and no one investigates how much you buy. Unless you happen to pull a shooting spree, then someone finds out.

My proposal is making stricter laws on purchasing ammo for guns. If you make it harder to get the ammo, that will reduce these kinds of killing sprees. I understand paranoia people have about protecting their homes by owning a gun. You honestly don't need more than a few bullets to pull that off, unless you have poor aim. If you own boxes of rounds of ammo, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you need so much. Unless being a sniper is your day job, it just doesn't make sense.
 
Yeah, that was my point, but I was super vague and unclear, so it didn't come across. In any case, I agree. Security doesn't necessarily stop people who are determined to do harm. Considering that this guy was wearing a bullet proof vest, he could have even gotten through armed guards if he wanted to. It's just a mess.

I mean, we could build a razor wire fence around schools, mandatory pat downs/strip searches for all incoming people, complete classroom lock down during session times, etc.
But who would want to go to that school?

Like I said before though, I'm not a defeatist, but a realist.
Looking at the whole scope of things, these types of incidents are rare and we live in one of the most safest times humans have ever lived in.
Real baby steps in making things realistically safer, like mental health evaluations and treatment, things like that would do more than anything else, imo of course.
 
We'll never be able to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands. I won't ever own a gun, nor do I like being around them. But stricter gun laws won't do a bit of good. What we need is regulation on buying the ammo for guns. A gun is useless without a bullet and right now you can buy bullets really easy and no one investigates how much you buy. Unless you happen to pull a shooting spree, then someone finds out.

My proposal is making stricter laws on purchasing ammo for guns. If you make it harder to get the ammo, that will reduce these kinds of killing sprees. I understand paranoia people have about protecting their homes by owning a gun. You honestly don't need more than a few bullets to pull that off, unless you have poor aim. If you own boxes of rounds of ammo, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you need so much. Unless being a sniper is your day job, it just doesn't make sense.

People like to shoot for recreation.
You can realistically go through thousands of rounds in a weekend.

Guns aren't just for safety/murder, they're for fun to.
 
I mean, we could build a razor wire fence around schools, mandatory pat downs/strip searches for all incoming people, complete classroom lock down during session times, etc.
But who would want to go to that school?

Like I said before though, I'm not a defeatist, but a realist.
Looking at the whole scope of things, these types of incidents are rare and we live in one of the most safest times humans have ever lived in.
Real baby steps in making things realistically safer, like mental health evaluations and treatment, things like that would do more than anything else, imo of course.
I agree. There is a point at which our quality of life is hindered to an undesirable level in the pursuit of security. I can think of plenty of ways to pretty much eliminate violent crime from the entire country, but living in that place would be horrible.

As far as mental health, it bothers me that it is often a secondary, tertiary or even nonexistent aspect of the debate that surrounds tragedies like this. I understand why guns would be a popular topic since that is tool most of these mass killers use, but still, mental health needs to be larger concern. Guns are what these guys use to express what's already in them, but it's their mental state that gets farther into the causes of their behavior.
 
We'll never be able to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands. I won't ever own a gun, nor do I like being around them. But stricter gun laws won't do a bit of good. What we need is regulation on buying the ammo for guns. A gun is useless without a bullet and right now you can buy bullets really easy and no one investigates how much you buy. Unless you happen to pull a shooting spree, then someone finds out.My proposal is making stricter laws on purchasing ammo for guns. If you make it harder to get the ammo, that will reduce these kinds of killing sprees. I understand paranoia people have about protecting their homes by owning a gun. You honestly don't need more than a few bullets to pull that off, unless you have poor aim. If you own boxes of rounds of ammo, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you need so much. Unless being a sniper is your day job, it just doesn't make sense.
when I was a professional level IPSC shooter I shot over a thousand rounds a week in practice. I bought lead or jacketed bullets in lots of 10,000. I buy 9mm by thousand round case lots and 22 ammo in lots of 5000. when I was on the world skeet circuit I would buy cases of shells-lots at a time to save money on shipping.You really don't know what you are talking about-high volume ammunition buyers are not a problem
 
For crimes like this, I support more than the death penalty. I would gladly do the honors of putting a murderer like this one, or the Colorado movie theater shooter, to death in as painful of a manner as possible.
 
We'll never be able to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands. I won't ever own a gun, nor do I like being around them. But stricter gun laws won't do a bit of good. What we need is regulation on buying the ammo for guns. A gun is useless without a bullet and right now you can buy bullets really easy and no one investigates how much you buy. Unless you happen to pull a shooting spree, then someone finds out.

My proposal is making stricter laws on purchasing ammo for guns. If you make it harder to get the ammo, that will reduce these kinds of killing sprees. I understand paranoia people have about protecting their homes by owning a gun. You honestly don't need more than a few bullets to pull that off, unless you have poor aim. If you own boxes of rounds of ammo, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you need so much. Unless being a sniper is your day job, it just doesn't make sense.


Bud, you mean well, but this isn't going to work. If you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies, what makes you think you can do that for ammo?

Also, homemade ammo is easier than homemade guns, and not much harder than homemade meth.

Also, it isn't like it takes tons of ammo to commit a killing spree like this... the guy probably fired less than 100 rounds total.

I often fire that much on a weekend when I'm practicing.
 
I agree. There is a point at which our quality of life is hindered to an undesirable level in the pursuit of security. I can think of plenty of ways to pretty much eliminate violent crime from the entire country, but living in that place would be horrible.

As far as mental health, it bothers me that it is often a secondary, tertiary or even nonexistent aspect of the debate that surrounds tragedies like this. I understand why guns would be a popular topic since that is tool most of these mass killers use, but still, mental health needs to be larger concern. Guns are what these guys use to express what's already in them, but it's their mental state that gets farther into the causes of their behavior.


Exactly! Thank you!


Mass murderers don't always use guns... but they are almost universally frigging crazy. 'Scuze me, I meant "psychologically abnormal".
 
For crimes like this, I support more than the death penalty. I would gladly do the honors of putting a murderer like this one, or the Colorado movie theater shooter, to death in as painful of a manner as possible.
yeah the guy who killed those kids should have been subjected to the pear of agony for a few hours and then broken on the wheel and then set upon a red ant hill. But sadly, these cowards tend to kill themselves rather than spending 30 years being someone's prison bitch
 
For crimes like this, I support more than the death penalty. I would gladly do the honors of putting a murderer like this one, or the Colorado movie theater shooter, to death in as painful of a manner as possible.

The killer knows this. His first slap in our face was killing innocent children. His second slap was shooting himself to avoid facing any consequences.
 
The killer knows this. His first slap in our face was killing innocent children. His second slap was shooting himself to avoid facing any consequences.
which demonstrates that the deterrent use of punishment is pretty much worthless when dealing with kamikazes. the only way to stop a kamikaze is to shoot it down before it kills you
 
which demonstrates that the deterrent use of punishment is pretty much worthless when dealing with kamikazes. the only way to stop a kamikaze is to shoot it down before it kills you

The Colorado Joker is still alive to skin and fry.
 
The Colorado Joker is still alive to skin and fry.
I would have no problem whatsoever in the families of the slain each getting full pardons for whatever they felt like doing to him for say 5 hours. Blowtorches, crowbars and car batteries with jumper cables should be supplied by the court
 
The Colorado Joker is still alive to skin and fry.

I forgot about him. Have a feeling he planned to kill himself but didn't have the cojones to do it.

His suffering would not bother me in the least.
 
I would have no problem whatsoever in the families of the slain each getting full pardons for whatever they felt like doing to him for say 5 hours. Blowtorches, crowbars and car batteries with jumper cables should be supplied by the court

I wish they'd go after his grad school the way they did Penn State.
 
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.
Your irrational fear of firearms does not equate to a sound argument for taking guns from law-abiding citizens.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone
This is an outright lie.
 
Well, I see it as a massively unanswered question. It's obvious the real reason that this stuff happens is because crazy people are crazy and etc. and we could easily go forth and debate cultural morality and the effects of religion and education and so on. However, which is more realistic and immediately effective? Somehow curbing culture or doing something to curb access to guns for crazy people?
It is illegal for legally-defined "crazy people" to buy or posess fireams.
Do you belive that making it double-illegal will have any effect?
 
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation? Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you. Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?
I have been dealing with anti gun hysterics for decades and this is probably the most idiotic comment I have ever seen come out of a gun hater
 
This is a terrible tragedy. I didn't hear the news until later in the afternoon, when the death toll and what had happened was pretty much known, and it all rolled over me like a tidal wave. I felt like someone had gut-punched me, I'm sure I turned pale and looked shocked. It is just inconcievable to me that someone could get so wrong in the head (or heart) as to murder a classroom full of little children. Horrendous, inconcievable, evil act.

As a parent it just tore a hole in me... I could so easily imagine myself in the place of the parents who lost a child today, and the utter horror and emptiness they must feel, the terrible way that the question "WHY?" must echo through their souls.

My heart goes out to them, and also my prayers.

Now we have those who are capitalizing on this tragedy to push their agenda, or who are reacting on emotion to call for instant action of some sort, typically gun control, without taking the time to allow emotions to cool and reason to prevail. To those let me say this: in the heat and heartbreak of such a tragedy is NO TIME to try to set public policy.

Wild emotion and heated reactions have no place in legislation.

We have as of yet far too little information to make judgements and decisions that will turn into legislative policy. We have no idea if any form of gun control would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. The odds are it would not have, since guns are readily available on the black market for those who cannot buy legally.

Many other things have a much better chance of actually CHANGING the outcome of such an event... better school security for starters: I have many questions about how he got in armed and why he was not stopped by an armed school resource officer, questions I as yet have no answers for. In the longer term, changing the way we handle mental illness in this country is very important... HOW did someone get this messed up in the head without someone realizing it and taking steps to intervene?

But even so, as I said, this is the wrong time for proposing policy or legislation. It will be days or weeks (or longer) before we have enough information to form an accurate picture of how and why this happened, and what could be done that would ACTUALLY help prevent such things, rather than JUST being feel-good actions that won't really change the situation.

Now is the time to grieve and pray; the time to hug your children and give thanks that they are safe and well; the time to reflect on the preciousness and fragility of life, and to think on those who have lost loved ones today.

Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.

You're too late, Obama already started.
 
There has to be a middle ground between allowing open access to guns for everyone and banning all guns outright. Both are extremes and unnecessary, but there has to be something there in the middle where we can say "okay we've come up with a system where responsible people can have guns, but irresponsible people cannot."
Hmm. Sounds like current federal law.
 
It is illegal for legally-defined "crazy people" to buy or posess fireams.Do you belive that making it double-illegal will have any effect?
why cannot the gun hating handwringers understand that someone who plans on DYING is not going to be deterred by the consequences of breaking a law. The only way to stop a kamikaze is to shoot it down before it KILLS someone or kills YOU
 
why cannot the gun hating handwringers understand that someone who plans on DYING is not going to be deterred by the consequences of breaking a law. The only way to stop a kamikaze is to shoot it down before it KILLS someone or kills YOU
Simple.
Their position on guns is not at all motivated by a concern for public safety.
 
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