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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

On the other hand, "sociopath" is a colloquial term for Antisocial Personality Disorder, which isn't diagnosable until age 18 (at the earliest). The shooter was young, right? These personality traits may have emerged somewhat recently.

And then there's the fact that there's only so much one can do. Maybe the parents of the shooter had tried to get him help. We don't really know at this point.

I don't think you're right here. Sociopathic behavior starts in childhood. Proven. Fire starters. Injuring siblings. Torturing/killing animals. Enduring physical/sexual abuse. This guy didn't act out of a vacuum. It will be discovered this young man had many issues that were either ignored -- or that we have no way to address until something horrible happens.
 
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Or, perhaps, we need to evolve our culture into one which believes no one needs to own a firearm at all other than police and military people.[/QUOTE]

this sets up for a potentially tyrannical government and is not a good idea
 
Or, perhaps, we need to evolve our culture into one which believes no one needs to own a firearm at all other than police and military people.

Perhaps we need to evolve our culture into one where personal responsibility is respected, encouraged and promoted rather than this cesspool where excuses are made for every damned **** up and where people turn first to the government to "solve" all that ails them.
 
I blame human nature and the psychology of people who think they need to own a gun. you don't buy a gun because it looks nice on your coffe mug tree, you buy a gun to kill a person. I'm sick of this people kill people B.S.... No ****?! That's why they bought a gun DUH!

I've owned a rifle for over 30 years and I've never intended to kill anyone.

On the other hand, I've been in the U.S. Army and have had many situations in which I HAVE intended to kill people.

At least in my case, I think you are wrong.
 
Whoa, man, thanks for that. I have quite the PTSD you know...

Sarcasm doesn't change the fact that you were painting with an extremely broad brush and making comments that had no basis in reality. You act as though you have never met a gun owner.
 
A very good question. Maybe they did realize and tried to do something about it, but there was only so much they could do. Or on the other hand, I suppose parents don't always see their own children in the most objective of lights.

Another thing to consider is that "sociopath" is a colloquial term for Antisocial Personality Disorder, which isn't diagnosable until age 18 (at the earliest). The shooter was young, right? These personality traits may have emerged somewhat recently. Who knows?

I guess it boggles my mind that the mother, a kindergarten teacher, apparently didn't know her teen son was a mass murderer. And child killer... that gives me the chills.
 
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?

Am I reading your post wrong? You actually think that everyone who owns a gun wants to kill someone? I am hoping you were joking. Otherwise, I think you forgot to take one of your meds today or something. That is really the most illogical thing I have read today and I have read some humdingers.

Taking guns away from people would work about as well as making meth illegal. Oh yea, it is illegal and it is still everywhere!
 
There has to be a middle ground between allowing open access to guns for everyone and banning all guns outright. Both are extremes and unnecessary, but there has to be something there in the middle where we can say "okay we've come up with a system where responsible people can have guns, but irresponsible people cannot."

As Lutherf said above, personal responsibility needs to be encouraged. I think responsible gun ownership is something that takes a backseat to simply allowing access to guns and that's sort of the main problem.
 
President Obama didn't forget to mention gun control during his touching speech.
 
Normally I tend to ignore these kind of tragedies, mainly because I have pretty extreme OCD, and things like this usually triggers that, and I know I'll end up in a ball in my bed not being able to think of much else. But I couldn't help but watch the news, and just cry. This was senseless, this was horrible, and I can't even really imagine how these families are feeling. Today we shouldn't be arguing, we are all family today. May God be with everyone today.
 
Normally I tend to ignore these kind of tragedies, mainly because I have pretty extreme OCD, and things like this usually triggers that, and I know I'll end up in a ball in my bed not being able to think of much else. But I couldn't help but watch the news, and just cry. This was senseless, this was horrible, and I can't even really imagine how these families are feeling. Today we shouldn't be arguing, we are all family today. May God be with everyone today.

It's okay to cry. :2bigcry:

:2grouphug
 
The fundies are now chiming in. Praying would NOT have prevented this. People are so damn delusional.

----
Fischer: God Didn't Stop CT School Shooting Because He's a Gentleman Who Doesn't Go Where He Is Not Wanted

Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn't because "God is not going to go where he is not wanted" and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer:




Fischer: God Didn't Stop School Shooting Because He's A Gentleman Who Doesn't Go Where Not Wanted - YouTube
 
Normally I tend to ignore these kind of tragedies, mainly because I have pretty extreme OCD, and things like this usually triggers that, and I know I'll end up in a ball in my bed not being able to think of much else. But I couldn't help but watch the news, and just cry. This was senseless, this was horrible, and I can't even really imagine how these families are feeling. Today we shouldn't be arguing, we are all family today. May God be with everyone today.

When there is a death in a family sometimes the mom needs to cry and the dad needs to keep on trucking. For the sake of the family. Even though I say this I still feel empathetic. Although im okay with you calling me crass because of it.
 
When there is a death in a family sometimes the mom needs to cry and the dad needs to keep on trucking. For the sake of the family. Even though I say this I still feel empathetic. Although im okay with you calling me crass because of it.

why does the mom sometimes need to cry and the dad "keep on trucking"? Why cant the dad cry?

ohh, that's right, the little woman is too week and the man should never cry, right?
 
When there is a death in a family sometimes the mom needs to cry and the dad needs to keep on trucking. For the sake of the family. Even though I say this I still feel empathetic. Although im okay with you calling me crass because of it.

I don't know if YS will call you crass, but I certainly will.

If either of my sons die, I will cry just as much as their mother will.
 
why does the mom sometimes need to cry and the dad "keep on trucking"? Why cant the dad cry?

ohh, that's right, the little woman is too week and the man should never cry, right?
:p Sure it can be the other way around. Im just speaking from a personal experience.
 
I don't know if YS will call you crass, but I certainly will.

If either of my sons die, I will cry just as much as their mother will.

Some of us cry on the inside. And hold our face steady for those around us.
 
Another terrible and unnecessary shooting, another year without SOME form of gun control. I really don't mean to politicize it, but that's honestly the very first thing that came to mind when I heard about this.

We can't sit idly by while the gun lobby and politicians say "oops, well, there's nothing that can be done
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"

Something's gotta be done man, something's gotta be done.

I get it, the feeling of hopelessness and helplessness is almost overwhelming but the reality of the situation is we're a country of over 300 million and all it takes is one lunatic with a couple of guns to cause a mass tragedy like this and new gun laws won't do anything except get guns out of the hands of law abiding people.

I just heard that the school was upgraded with a security system that locks people out and gives the people inside the ability to buzz individuals in.

It was insufficient.

Every class room door should be locked remotely immediately upon shots fired or a locked down scenario and those doors should be bullet proof steel doors. It would isolate the kids and most teachers.
 
A disappointing response. You certainly are not required to "prove" anything but I wonder why you bothered responding to my original post if I wasn't worth bothering with or communicating with. Isn't this a venue for discussion? :roll:




You proved yourself to be a defeatist, to be not be able to see that many more things can be done to reduce this when you state such resigning "reasoning". The first step would be for you to understand that you are wrong....but I am not required to prove to you anything. As a matter of fact, I don't have to do anything, I have the right to say you are wrong. i am not required to enlighten you to the multiple avenues that exist for reducing this....and I don't really believe it would make a difference since you have a firm belief that nothing can be done.

You just keep on going that way at your own peril, that is fine with me.
 
This is a terrible tragedy. I didn't hear the news until later in the afternoon, when the death toll and what had happened was pretty much known, and it all rolled over me like a tidal wave. I felt like someone had gut-punched me, I'm sure I turned pale and looked shocked. It is just inconcievable to me that someone could get so wrong in the head (or heart) as to murder a classroom full of little children. Horrendous, inconcievable, evil act.

As a parent it just tore a hole in me... I could so easily imagine myself in the place of the parents who lost a child today, and the utter horror and emptiness they must feel, the terrible way that the question "WHY?" must echo through their souls.

My heart goes out to them, and also my prayers.

Now we have those who are capitalizing on this tragedy to push their agenda, or who are reacting on emotion to call for instant action of some sort, typically gun control, without taking the time to allow emotions to cool and reason to prevail. To those let me say this: in the heat and heartbreak of such a tragedy is NO TIME to try to set public policy.

Wild emotion and heated reactions have no place in legislation.

We have as of yet far too little information to make judgements and decisions that will turn into legislative policy. We have no idea if any form of gun control would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. The odds are it would not have, since guns are readily available on the black market for those who cannot buy legally.

Many other things have a much better chance of actually CHANGING the outcome of such an event... better school security for starters: I have many questions about how he got in armed and why he was not stopped by an armed school resource officer, questions I as yet have no answers for. In the longer term, changing the way we handle mental illness in this country is very important... HOW did someone get this messed up in the head without someone realizing it and taking steps to intervene?

But even so, as I said, this is the wrong time for proposing policy or legislation. It will be days or weeks (or longer) before we have enough information to form an accurate picture of how and why this happened, and what could be done that would ACTUALLY help prevent such things, rather than JUST being feel-good actions that won't really change the situation.

Now is the time to grieve and pray; the time to hug your children and give thanks that they are safe and well; the time to reflect on the preciousness and fragility of life, and to think on those who have lost loved ones today.

Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.
 
I don't think you're right here. Sociopathic behavior starts in childhood. Proven. Fire starters. Injuring siblings. Torturing/killing animals. Enduring physical/sexual abuse. This guy didn't act out of a vacuum. It will be discovered this young man had many issues that were either ignored -- or that we have no way to address until something horrible happens.

All folks with Antisocial Personality Disorder showed signs of Conduct Disorder in their younger years, you're right. But nowhere near all kids with Conduct Disorder turn into 'sociopaths.'
 
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