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Thread: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

  1. #371
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've been thinking about this all day, and no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to find any sense of peace. 40 parents will never, ever hug their children again. A young man lost his mother and brother at the brother's own hand. Several families will be without moms, dads, brothers, sisters, cousins, nieces, nephews. Friends will never have another sleep over. Hundreds of children will fear the next trip to school and some may never recover. Residents of Newton will not be likely to sleep soundly for a very long time.

    And at the end of the day, all I can really do to negate this senseless, horrific act is hug my family a little closer, cherish the children in my life, and hope like hell that those directly effected today find a way to move forward.

    But I will NOT politicize the deaths of these children while their bodies are still warm. I will NOT debate semantic arguments, cliched talking points, or radical pro/anti nonsense in relation to gun law. Right now, in this moment....it just doesn't matter. Evil, deranged, sick people will find a way to satisfy their compulsions to do harm. What matters is that those of us with compassion, strength, and a sense of community do what it takes to lift up the broken hearted and carry them until they can walk on their own again. What matters is refilling the world with some of the love and care that was senselessly destroyed today. What matters is helping the surviving students find a way to feel safe again. What matters is the families, friends, first responders...

    I am so terribly sad tonight. But I am also incredibly angry at those who would spend more time using victims as fodder for their political agenda than showing legitimate compassion for those in Newton. If it were my child I wouldn't want them used in such a manner, especially before their bodies even made it to the morgue.
    Eh, I'm not interested in a political discussion either, but this is a political forum - it is the one place people who want political discussion should feel comfortable talking about the political consequences and implications of such a significant event.

    I do think, however, that the one liner cheap shots like "all gun owners are responsible for these deaths" or "can't wait to see what the anti-gun nuts have to say now" are indefensible since they are about being mean-spirited rather than trying to communicate a legitimate point. But almost everything that happens in the world is inherently political and in some cases, it is through politics that we can make people feel and actually be safe again, so to condemn political discussion on a political forum doesn't make sense to me.

  2. #372
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Eh, I'm not interested in a political discussion either, but this is a political forum - it is the one place people who want political discussion should feel comfortable talking about the political consequences and implications of such a significant event.

    I do think, however, that the one liner cheap shots like "all gun owners are responsible for these deaths" or "can't wait to see what the anti-gun nuts have to say now" are indefensible since they are about being mean-spirited rather than trying to communicate a legitimate point. But almost everything that happens in the world is inherently political and in some cases, it is through politics that we can make people feel and actually be safe again, so to condemn political discussion on a political forum doesn't make sense to me.
    I didn't say it should never be debated, just that I don't personally think this is the time or place.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Saboteur View Post
    I blame human nature and the psychology of people who think they need to own a gun. you don't buy a gun because it looks nice on your coffe mug tree, you buy a gun to kill a person. I'm sick of this people kill people B.S.... No ****?! That's why they bought a gun DUH!

    Actually, I buy guns to kill tasty animals and nasty critters that might harm myself or my domestic animals. I only have one that is for killing people, but that is only if they show up in the middle of the night, don't use the door and come with criminal intent. If possible, I still intend to give them the chance to surrender. I also enjoy occasionally going to the range and shooting holes in paper, it not only improves my accuracy, I find it relaxing sometimes.

    Once again, someone is blaming an inanimate object for doing something.

    When are we going to wake up and realize that gun free zones are nothing but shooting galleries for the insane people who would do such a thing? If a single teacher or visitor had been armed, how many could of been saved?

    It is impossible to remove guns from our society, there are too many and people have legally owned them for too long and for those who live in some rural areas, they are still very much needed. So lets focus on a workable solution, not some liberal fantasy. If you cannot take guns away from bad people, which you cannot, then you have to allow good people guns to defend themselves and other.

    While in the military, I was sometimes issued a gun and definitely had intent to kill people with it if necessary. Since I also worked on aircraft that controlled strikes and bombing runs, then, yes, I was a direct accessory to killing thousands, probably more. But, I never actually shot anyone myself and I have owned guns pretty much all my life.
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  4. #374
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I've been thinking about this all day, and no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to find any sense of peace. 40 parents will never, ever hug their children again. A young man lost his mother and brother at the brother's own hand. Several families will be without moms, dads, brothers, sisters, cousins, nieces, nephews. Friends will never have another sleep over. Hundreds of children will fear the next trip to school and some may never recover. Residents of Newton will not be likely to sleep soundly for a very long time.

    And at the end of the day, all I can really do to negate this senseless, horrific act is hug my family a little closer, cherish the children in my life, and hope like hell that those directly effected today find a way to move forward.

    But I will NOT politicize the deaths of these children while their bodies are still warm. I will NOT debate semantic arguments, cliched talking points, or radical pro/anti nonsense in relation to gun law. Right now, in this moment....it just doesn't matter. Evil, deranged, sick people will find a way to satisfy their compulsions to do harm. What matters is that those of us with compassion, strength, and a sense of community do what it takes to lift up the broken hearted and carry them until they can walk on their own again. What matters is refilling the world with some of the love and care that was senselessly destroyed today. What matters is helping the surviving students find a way to feel safe again. What matters is the families, friends, first responders...

    I am so terribly sad tonight. But I am also incredibly angry at those who would spend more time using victims as fodder for their political agenda than showing legitimate compassion for those in Newton. If it were my child I wouldn't want them used in such a manner, especially before their bodies even made it to the morgue.
    I agree with you. I don't want any pro or anti gun Monday morning quarterback barking.

    I don't know if this some kind of copycat shooting to the Portland mall shooting we just had. Shooting of defenseless little 5-6 year olds was his way of shoving it in our faces. You just keep thinking what could be more tragic than a current killing of innocents and then some piece of cow feces shows you what scum can do.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I didn't say it should never be debated, just that I don't personally think this is the time or place.
    I know and my point was this is a political forum, so if there is any place to debate it, this is it.

  6. #376
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I actually read somewhere that the school had just implemented a new security system, so...
    Kinda proves the point I was making to a degree.
    Even with enhanced security, someone with bad intent will do bad things.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Kinda proves the point I was making to a degree.
    Even with enhanced security, someone with bad intent will do bad things.
    Yeah, that was my point, but I was super vague and unclear, so it didn't come across. In any case, I agree. Security doesn't necessarily stop people who are determined to do harm. Considering that this guy was wearing a bullet proof vest, he could have even gotten through armed guards if he wanted to. It's just a mess.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    When are we going to wake up and realize that gun free zones are nothing but shooting galleries for the insane people who would do such a thing? If a single teacher or visitor had been armed, how many could of been saved?
    Or you can argue that if the shooter's mom didn't have the guns in her house many could have been saved. Or we argue and argue. And if he didn't have a gun he could have easily built a home made bomb to just quickly toss in a classroom. I think the only thing people can do is become more and more aware of their surroundings and people.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    We'll never be able to keep guns from getting into the wrong hands. I won't ever own a gun, nor do I like being around them. But stricter gun laws won't do a bit of good. What we need is regulation on buying the ammo for guns. A gun is useless without a bullet and right now you can buy bullets really easy and no one investigates how much you buy. Unless you happen to pull a shooting spree, then someone finds out.

    My proposal is making stricter laws on purchasing ammo for guns. If you make it harder to get the ammo, that will reduce these kinds of killing sprees. I understand paranoia people have about protecting their homes by owning a gun. You honestly don't need more than a few bullets to pull that off, unless you have poor aim. If you own boxes of rounds of ammo, then you need to take a step back and ask yourself why you need so much. Unless being a sniper is your day job, it just doesn't make sense.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Yeah, that was my point, but I was super vague and unclear, so it didn't come across. In any case, I agree. Security doesn't necessarily stop people who are determined to do harm. Considering that this guy was wearing a bullet proof vest, he could have even gotten through armed guards if he wanted to. It's just a mess.
    I mean, we could build a razor wire fence around schools, mandatory pat downs/strip searches for all incoming people, complete classroom lock down during session times, etc.
    But who would want to go to that school?

    Like I said before though, I'm not a defeatist, but a realist.
    Looking at the whole scope of things, these types of incidents are rare and we live in one of the most safest times humans have ever lived in.
    Real baby steps in making things realistically safer, like mental health evaluations and treatment, things like that would do more than anything else, imo of course.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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