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Thread: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    All folks with Antisocial Personality Disorder showed signs of Conduct Disorder in their younger years, you're right. But nowhere near all kids with Conduct Disorder turn into 'sociopaths.'
    And THAT'S what makes it so damned difficult.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    I prayed in vain that this wouldn't turn into a gun rights vs. gun control fiasco.

    There is a small contingent of violent psychopaths out there that are now bent on "breaking the record". I believe this wholeheartedly. I'm not saying that it is anything conspiratorial or organized, either. I'm just saying that, starting with the Columbine tragedy, the truly psychotic out there seem to be focused on numbers. Sickening.

    God this is awful. I'm going to go now and pick up my 5 year old daughter from preschool and give her the biggest hug I ever have given.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    And THAT'S what makes it so damned difficult.
    It's also possible though that some other mental disorder (not Antisocial Personality) was a contributing factor in the act, such as Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective Disorder or Bipolar type.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post

    Or, perhaps, we need to evolve our culture into one which believes no one needs to own a firearm at all other than police and military people.
    That is exactly the type of society I do NOT want to live in.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    There has to be a middle ground between allowing open access to guns for everyone and banning all guns outright. Both are extremes and unnecessary, but there has to be something there in the middle where we can say "okay we've come up with a system where responsible people can have guns, but irresponsible people cannot."

    As Lutherf said above, personal responsibility needs to be encouraged. I think responsible gun ownership is something that takes a backseat to simply allowing access to guns and that's sort of the main problem.
    There is a middle ground and although gun laws are different in different states I think we have more or less found that middle ground.

    One thing we can't forget is that we can't legislate responsibility into existence. The best we can do is legislate the consequences for being irresponsible and that means that from time to time we will have unsavory situations to deal with.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    This is a terrible tragedy. I didn't hear the news until later in the afternoon, when the death toll and what had happened was pretty much known, and it all rolled over me like a tidal wave. I felt like someone had gut-punched me, I'm sure I turned pale and looked shocked. It is just inconcievable to me that someone could get so wrong in the head (or heart) as to murder a classroom full of little children. Horrendous, inconcievable, evil act.

    As a parent it just tore a hole in me... I could so easily imagine myself in the place of the parents who lost a child today, and the utter horror and emptiness they must feel, the terrible way that the question "WHY?" must echo through their souls.

    My heart goes out to them, and also my prayers.

    Now we have those who are capitalizing on this tragedy to push their agenda, or who are reacting on emotion to call for instant action of some sort, typically gun control, without taking the time to allow emotions to cool and reason to prevail. To those let me say this: in the heat and heartbreak of such a tragedy is NO TIME to try to set public policy.

    Wild emotion and heated reactions have no place in legislation.

    We have as of yet far too little information to make judgements and decisions that will turn into legislative policy. We have no idea if any form of gun control would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. The odds are it would not have, since guns are readily available on the black market for those who cannot buy legally.

    Many other things have a much better chance of actually CHANGING the outcome of such an event... better school security for starters: I have many questions about how he got in armed and why he was not stopped by an armed school resource officer, questions I as yet have no answers for. In the longer term, changing the way we handle mental illness in this country is very important... HOW did someone get this messed up in the head without someone realizing it and taking steps to intervene?

    But even so, as I said, this is the wrong time for proposing policy or legislation. It will be days or weeks (or longer) before we have enough information to form an accurate picture of how and why this happened, and what could be done that would ACTUALLY help prevent such things, rather than JUST being feel-good actions that won't really change the situation.

    Now is the time to grieve and pray; the time to hug your children and give thanks that they are safe and well; the time to reflect on the preciousness and fragility of life, and to think on those who have lost loved ones today.

    Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.
    Holy **** dude. Trying not to tear up. Thank you for your reason. I gotta log out from all this.
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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I get it, the feeling of hopelessness and helplessness is almost overwhelming but the reality of the situation is we're a country of over 300 million and all it takes is one lunatic with a couple of guns to cause a mass tragedy like this and new gun laws won't do anything except get guns out of the hands of law abiding people.

    I just heard that the school was upgraded with a security system that locks people out and gives the people inside the ability to buzz individuals in.

    It was insufficient.

    Every class room door should be locked remotely immediately upon shots fired or a locked down scenario and those doors should be bullet proof steel doors. It would isolate the kids and most teachers.
    This story got me upset, so when that happens I kinda shoot from the hip when I say things.

    My intention is not to say that we punish those who weren't responsible. In fact, it's probably more important than ever that responsible gun owners speak out and represent themselves more strongly, because crazy folks like Adam Lanza give them a bad name. To me, it often seems like gun culture and violence culture in general dominate responsible gun ownership.

    Maybe we can create laws that do, in effect, encourage responsibility, like better background checks and stuff like that. I dunno, we'd have to discuss it more as a society, it's not exactly a simple fix.


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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    One thing we can't forget is that we can't legislate responsibility into existence. The best we can do is legislate the consequences for being irresponsible and that means that from time to time we will have unsavory situations to deal with.
    Yeah, I guess that's what I meant.


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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cilogy View Post
    This story got me upset, so when that happens I kinda shoot from the hip when I say things.

    My intention is not to say that we punish those who weren't responsible. In fact, it's probably more important than ever that responsible gun owners speak out and represent themselves more strongly, because crazy folks like Adam Lanza give them a bad name. To me, it often seems like gun culture and violence culture in general dominate responsible gun ownership.

    Maybe we can create laws that do, in effect, encourage responsibility, like better background checks and stuff like that. I dunno, we'd have to discuss it more as a society, it's not exactly a simple fix.

    One thing that virtually all these mass murders have in common is that they are mentally ill.

    We really need to address that as a nation. In the 80's mental institutions were de-funded and many closed, and in many cases this put people on the street who REALLY needed to be institutionalized. In the years since (and I know this as a cop) it is hard to get someone committed to an institution even IF there is reason to believe they may be dangerous.

    In the longer term, addressing our national blind-eye towards mental illness might go a long way towards reducing the frequency of such incidents... perhaps more so than any other action we might take.

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    re: Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    I don't know if YS will call you crass, but I certainly will.

    If either of my sons die, I will cry just as much as their mother will.
    Of course... that would be normal and expected.



    However, I don't know ANYONE in Connecticut and I find it hard to cry for people I don't know enduring tragedy I didn't see first hand.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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