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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

hawke812 said:
I wonder if people believe guns kill people also believe in the following controls:

  • Planes kill people, like the 9/11 attacks (Plane Control) Not the actual people who decided to hijack the planes
  • Cars kill people, like the recent Dallas Cowboys incident (Car Control) Not the driver DWI
  • Atomic Bombs kill people, like Hiroshima (Bomb Control) Not the people dropping the bomb
  • Gas Chambers kill people, like in Germany (Gas Control) Not the people operating the gas chambers
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Can we get any sillier than this?

You may or may not believe that gun control is an answer. To try and equate an issue like guns, a weapon that permeates almost every aspect of society, with these other things is absurd.
 
jakiejakester said:
This is an incredibly weak argument. You and I get into a rock throwing argument or we get into a gun shooting argument....You have the rock and I have the gun....You're dead and I'm writing this....
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But can a rock be used as a tool to commit the crime of murder?

Yes? Then we should control it.
 
upsideguy said:
...an interesting conclusion given the article states the 22 were injured by the knife-wielding man...
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So what? Do you dismiss those victims in China because they were only slashed with a knife instead of being shot?

Doesn't alter my point that people are the problem.
 
If they have a camera in the front then who is the second gunman?
 
This is a horrible tragedy and I am still in shock. The world is different now in my eyes. Out of the 12 worst shootings in US history 6 have happened since 2007. We need to find out what fuels this. This needs to stop. My daughter is going to grow up in a world different than the one I knew. I think our president be it his words and emotions summarized eloquently what every parent feels now. Let us grieve, pause, then use critical thought to come up with solutions to do everything in our power to prevent anymore mass shootings.
 
JohnWOlin said:
This is a horrible tragedy and I am still in shock. The world is different now in my eyes. Out of the 12 worst shootings in US history 6 have happened since 2007. We need to find out what fuels this. This needs to stop. My daughter is going to grow up in a world different than the one I knew. I think our president be it his words and emotions summarized eloquently what every parent feels now. Let us grieve, pause, then use critical thought to come up with solutions to do everything in our power to prevent anymore mass shootings.
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k, I figured out the solution.

STOP ****ING REPORTING THIS **** AS NATIONAL NEWS.........


These rejects love the idea that their death will have meaning...... stop reporting it and people will stop doing it as often.
 
Caine said:
k, I figured out the solution.

STOP ****ING REPORTING THIS **** AS NATIONAL NEWS.........


These rejects love the idea that their death will have meaning...... stop reporting it and people will stop doing it as often.
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National news?

This is international news. And the one question that people around the world wonder is 'why does this go on in the U.S. all the time? There is something about American society that makes these occurances common place in the USA. Something like this seems to happen in the world, outside the U.S. about every 2 or 3 years. Within the U.S. it seems it happens 2-3 times a year. ( I am not sure what the actual numbers are, but I am sure they can be obtained)

Surely the first step is to try to determine what is it, in American society, that makes these tradegies occur so regularly.
Maybe its the guns culture, maybe its the obsession with violence, maybe its because the media and the politics are so fear driven.

The reason needs to be determined first. Then a thoughtful discussion can be taken with regards to steps that can or should, be taken.
 
rjay said:
National news?

This is international news. And the one question that people around the world wonder is 'why does this go on in the U.S. all the time? There is something about American society that makes these occurances common place in the USA. Something like this seems to happen in the world, outside the U.S. about every 2 or 3 years. Within the U.S. it seems it happens 2-3 times a year. ( I am not sure what the actual numbers are, but I am sure they can be obtained)

Surely the first step is to try to determine what is it, in American society, that makes these tradegies occur so regularly.
Maybe its the guns culture, maybe its the obsession with violence, maybe its because the media and the politics are so fear driven.

The reason needs to be determined first. Then a thoughtful discussion can be taken with regards to steps that can or should, be taken.
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I heard on Nightline that this is the 13th such incident since Columbine.
 
Caine said:
k, I figured out the solution.

STOP ****ING REPORTING THIS **** AS NATIONAL NEWS.........


These rejects love the idea that their death will have meaning...... stop reporting it and people will stop doing it as often.
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I understand what you're saying. Sickos feed on the attention, and right now some sicko is thinking about a way to "best" this "record."

Sad fact of life. Not much new, only our awareness because of insta-info of what happened today and, just maybe, a loosening of societal sanctions.

But it is still news, and if there is anything good that come of today's horrific tragedy, it's that despite an increasingly unshockable society, normal folks worldwide are shocked.

Never mind the one-issue idealogues who are seizing upon this. "This" is a part of the "human condition," and the graver danger, I would argue, is when the execution of a classroom of babies isn't worthy of discussion.

What can we do, absent a Minority Report world, to effect change? Anything?

Whatever the solution may be, pretending to ignore what's real won't work. Let's not "celebrate" the sensational. Of course not.

But is not the execution of a classroom of 5-year olds newsworthy? It was in Scotland a few years back. Should it not ever be so that we report on and recognize the slaughter of innocents, even if it means giving "glory" to the sickos who perpetrated the crimes?

And here's what I mean: Name the butcher in Scotland who herded all those kids into the gym. You can't without Googling.

I can't remember his name...but I remember what happened that day and what a violation of our humanity this remains.
 
Caine said:
k, I figured out the solution.

STOP ****ING REPORTING THIS **** AS NATIONAL NEWS.........


These rejects love the idea that their death will have meaning...... stop reporting it and people will stop doing it as often.
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Your solution is to turn off the tv and imagine your own world? Why are you even posting on here if this is your train of thought?
 
JohnWOlin said:
Your solution is to turn off the tv and imagine your own world? Why are you even posting on here if this is your train of thought?
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Do you have a better idea?
 
This sort of child massacres happened during Serbian occupation of Dardania in 1999. To think that the same would happen to a civilized country as well seems very unsettling!

This is not the first time shootings occur in schools neither. What is it with USA and School shootings anyway!?
 
Goshin said:
Bud, you mean well, but this isn't going to work. If you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and crazies, what makes you think you can do that for ammo?

Also, homemade ammo is easier than homemade guns, and not much harder than homemade meth.

Also, it isn't like it takes tons of ammo to commit a killing spree like this... the guy probably fired less than 100 rounds total.

I often fire that much on a weekend when I'm practicing.
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I understand what you are saying and it makes sense. I know my suggestion may not be the greatest, but the system can be revised so that you can only purchase large quantaties of ammo you use at the range to be available at the range and only for use at the range. It's not a fool-proof way to handle it, but the bullet is the killer, not the gun.
 
DDD said:
This sort of child massacres happened during Serbian occupation of Dardania in 1999. To think that the same would happen to a civilized country as well seems very unsettling! This is not the first time shootings occur in schools neither. What is it with USA and School shootings anyway!?
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some believe the amount of attention these killers get may inspire copy cats
 
JohnWOlin said:
This is a horrible tragedy and I am still in shock. The world is different now in my eyes. Out of the 12 worst shootings in US history 6 have happened since 2007. We need to find out what fuels this. This needs to stop. My daughter is going to grow up in a world different than the one I knew. I think our president be it his words and emotions summarized eloquently what every parent feels now. Let us grieve, pause, then use critical thought to come up with solutions to do everything in our power to prevent anymore mass shootings.
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No your daughter is likely going to grow up in a safer world than you knew.
I'm not trying to down play what happened, it's horrible.

With all that said, the main reason, most people react to **** like this, as they do, is because the majority of us have never really experienced horrific violence.
Our ancestors, would tell quite a different story.

The world isn't getting worse.
 
Caine said:
k, I figured out the solution.

STOP ****ING REPORTING THIS **** AS NATIONAL NEWS.........


These rejects love the idea that their death will have meaning...... stop reporting it and people will stop doing it as often.
Click to expand...

I think it's over sensationalized. That's where they get the idea to do these horrendous events, occurs. The Media can report it briefly but then move on and not cover it 24/7 for days on end, asking the same stupid question over and over, "what made them do it?" They're ****ing crazy, sick in the head that's what always makes them do it!

It's not a gun, violent video game or mental health issue though those may be slightly contributing factors as much as it's a fascination with the News outlets on DEATH and MAYHEM. The very thing we all say we hate we can't STOP talking, reading or watching about. I hate Bluegrass Music and buttermilk and you know what I never pay any attention to them, except to say yuck when exposed.
 
tessaesque said:
I've been thinking about this all day, and no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to find any sense of peace. 40 parents will never, ever hug their children again. A young man lost his mother and brother at the brother's own hand. Several families will be without moms, dads, brothers, sisters, cousins, nieces, nephews. Friends will never have another sleep over. Hundreds of children will fear the next trip to school and some may never recover. Residents of Newton will not be likely to sleep soundly for a very long time.

And at the end of the day, all I can really do to negate this senseless, horrific act is hug my family a little closer, cherish the children in my life, and hope like hell that those directly effected today find a way to move forward.

But I will NOT politicize the deaths of these children while their bodies are still warm. I will NOT debate semantic arguments, cliched talking points, or radical pro/anti nonsense in relation to gun law. Right now, in this moment....it just doesn't matter. Evil, deranged, sick people will find a way to satisfy their compulsions to do harm. What matters is that those of us with compassion, strength, and a sense of community do what it takes to lift up the broken hearted and carry them until they can walk on their own again. What matters is refilling the world with some of the love and care that was senselessly destroyed today. What matters is helping the surviving students find a way to feel safe again. What matters is the families, friends, first responders...

I am so terribly sad tonight. But I am also incredibly angry at those who would spend more time using victims as fodder for their political agenda than showing legitimate compassion for those in Newton. If it were my child I wouldn't want them used in such a manner, especially before their bodies even made it to the morgue.
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I think you're misunderstanding what people are writing here. With a few exceptions the posts that I've read are all feeling the pain of what happened in Newtown and because of their hurt we are feeling a strong desire to reduce the chances of this happening again. Being angry about guns is a natural reaction to the unreal murders. If you don't want to politicize maybe you should stop writing about gun control in so many posts because your words are making a lot of us respond with gun control remarks. You've made your point that you don't believe now is the time to not discuss gun control and you keep writing it which spurs posts disagreeing with you. You're contributing to the gun control debate in this thread.
 
DVSentinel said:
Actually, I buy guns to kill tasty animals and nasty critters that might harm myself or my domestic animals. I only have one that is for killing people, but that is only if they show up in the middle of the night, don't use the door and come with criminal intent. If possible, I still intend to give them the chance to surrender. I also enjoy occasionally going to the range and shooting holes in paper, it not only improves my accuracy, I find it relaxing sometimes.

Once again, someone is blaming an inanimate object for doing something.

When are we going to wake up and realize that gun free zones are nothing but shooting galleries for the insane people who would do such a thing? If a single teacher or visitor had been armed, how many could of been saved?

It is impossible to remove guns from our society, there are too many and people have legally owned them for too long and for those who live in some rural areas, they are still very much needed. So lets focus on a workable solution, not some liberal fantasy. If you cannot take guns away from bad people, which you cannot, then you have to allow good people guns to defend themselves and other.

While in the military, I was sometimes issued a gun and definitely had intent to kill people with it if necessary. Since I also worked on aircraft that controlled strikes and bombing runs, then, yes, I was a direct accessory to killing thousands, probably more. But, I never actually shot anyone myself and I have owned guns pretty much all my life.
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522557_10151294338749349_366844852_n.jpg
These are the facts - enough about guns not being a major contributor to gun murders!
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
People like to shoot for recreation.
You can realistically go through thousands of rounds in a weekend.

Guns aren't just for safety/murder, they're for fun to.
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I've never been so bored that I thought going to shoot guns would be more fun than anything else I could come up with to pass the time.
 
Dr_Patrick said:
Say what you want, but none of those things are as quick and effective as a gun.
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Volatile chemicals are. You can make bombs out of those.
 
Mathematician said:
For crimes like this, I support more than the death penalty. I would gladly do the honors of putting a murderer like this one, or the Colorado movie theater shooter, to death in as painful of a manner as possible.
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In other words you're for feeding the mob frenzy when a majority of people get really angry? I don't get my rocks off finding the most intense ways to kill people. Your post suggests that you would find satisfaction in making masses of people gather together to celebrate the most violent possible way to kill someone. That is very disturbing to me.
 
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