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Thread: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Something which has been said quite a lot since the great depression. Usually as a cover for extreme political behavior.
    Actually, it has NOT been said "quite a lot" since the labor unions managed to obtain decent wages for their members, thereby jump starting the greatest economic surge in the history of the world, firmly establishing the consumer based Western economy and the middle class American dream, while saving America from a communist revolution during the Great Depression and then generating the economic muscle to ultimately win the Cold War.

    What you don't know about organized labor is "quite a lot."
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Actually, it has NOT been said "quite a lot" since the labor unions managed to obtain decent wages for their members, thereby jump starting the greatest economic surge in the history of the world, firmly establishing the consumer based Western economy and the middle class American dream, while saving America from a communist revolution during the Great Depression and then generating the economic muscle to ultimately win the Cold War.

    What you don't know about organized labor is "quite a lot."
    Except for one problem. We are in a consumer economy now, not a production economy. The union labor model just does not work anymore. It is now pull marketing and not push marketing. Labor has to respond to rapid retoolings and harsh product changes in a matter of weeks and months, not years. Organized labor not only slows this down, it stymies it at the gate. The only labor begins to work again is if it curbs its worst impulses (management too, when it comes down to it) and they work together to make better products and maintain a workforce that is efficient, profitable and a partner in effective production. Right now its entirely adversarial---which you seem to relish, but it gets nothing accomplished.

    It was said repeatedly in the 20s and 30s, repeatedly in the 60s and 70s, repeatedly in the 80s, repeatedly in the 90s, and repeatedly since 2000. The only thing that has changed is the face of the movement saying it. What you are saying isnt JUST all about labor.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Except for one problem. We are in a consumer economy now, not a production economy. The union labor model just does not work anymore. It is now pull marketing and not push marketing. Labor has to respond to rapid retoolings and harsh product changes in a matter of weeks and months, not years. Organized labor not only slows this down, it stymies it at the gate. The only labor begins to work again is if it curbs its worst impulses (management too, when it comes down to it) and they work together to make better products and maintain a workforce that is efficient, profitable and a partner in effective production. Right now its entirely adversarial---which you seem to relish, but it gets nothing accomplished.

    It was said repeatedly in the 20s and 30s, repeatedly in the 60s and 70s, repeatedly in the 80s, repeatedly in the 90s, and repeatedly since 2000. The only thing that has changed is the face of the movement saying it. What you are saying isnt JUST all about labor.
    You make these claims about unions impeding progress and product changes, yet Germany where federal law requires that a manufacturers' labour unions be represented on large companies board of directors is second only to China in exporting high technology items.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    When children don't get their cookies they throw a fit, swing their arms and hold their breath...

    It's funny how these progressive union members act like 5-year-olds.... "Gimme a cookie or I'll knock your teeth out." Give them the cookie so their teeth rot out.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post

    Except for one problem. We are in a consumer economy now, not a production economy.
    I just said that! Did I not just say that the consumer based economy was a direct product of organized labor and collective bargaining? Now, ask yourself why this should be so.

    The union labor model just does not work anymore. It is now pull marketing and not push marketing.
    Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Here is a very basic lesson in marketing: When people cannot afford to buy things, all the marketing in the world, be it "push" or "pull" or "jump up and down" is utterly pointless.

    Labor has to respond to rapid retoolings and harsh product changes in a matter of weeks and months, not years. Organized labor not only slows this down, it stymies it at the gate.
    What in God's name are you blathering about here?

    The only [way] labor begins to work again is if it curbs its worst impulses (management too, when it comes down to it) and they work together to make better products and maintain a workforce that is efficient, profitable and a partner in effective production. Right now its entirely adversarial---which you seem to relish, but it gets nothing accomplished.
    I'm all in favor of cooperation between management and labor. Unfortunately, the real source of adversity is the stockholders, to whom management is ultimately beholden; and the stockholders simply want the highest return on their investment, even if it entails the most unconscionable exploitation of human labor imaginable (especially if they can somehow avoid hearing about it on the nightly news).
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    You make these claims about unions impeding progress and product changes, yet Germany where federal law requires that a manufacturers' labour unions be represented on large companies board of directors is second only to China in exporting high technology items.
    The relationship between organized labor and management is a different paradigm from the one in the US. It is much more of a partnership and both sides bend. Here, because its so adversarial one side or the other seeks to crush, depending on who has the advantage.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    I just said that! Did I not just say that the consumer based economy was a direct product of organized labor and collective bargaining? Now, ask yourself why this should be so.

    The union based economy was a production economy. We are no longer a production economy. We are a consumer economy. We are no longer a push market in the US. We are a pull market. Shifting from one to the other is a factor of production efficiency outstripping the demand for products. As well as other factors like consumer knowledge and desire for specialized products. Consumers today are a 100 times more savvy than consumers in the 50s. They will not take any product. The product has to have a draw or be marketed to a specific market segment.



    Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Here is a very basic lesson in marketing: When people cannot afford to buy things, all the marketing in the world, be it "push" or "pull" or "jump up and down" is utterly pointless.
    Go look up push and pull marketing. Stop using subject ignorance as a platform for belligerence.

    What in God's name are you blathering about here?

    Unions are resistant to reorganizing processes without contractual agreement and concessions. This slows down retooling for product changes.



    I'm all in favor of cooperation between management and labor. Unfortunately, the real source of adversity is the stockholders, to whom management is ultimately beholden; and the stockholders simply want the highest return on their investment, even if it entails the most unconscionable exploitation of human labor imaginable (especially if they can somehow avoid hearing about it on the nightly news).
    Stockholders are correct to expect the highest return they can upon their investment. ITS THEIR MONEY.
    Bolded is no longer possible in the US and stay within the law. There are a lot of legal advocates looking to make a buck if a business looks even a little shady in its employee treatment. Companies are leary of litigation, they avoid it whenever possible.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Stockholders are correct to expect the highest return they can upon their investment. ITS THEIR MONEY.
    That is no excuse for exploiting human labor.

    Bolded is no longer possible in the US and stay within the law. There are a lot of legal advocates looking to make a buck if a business looks even a little shady in its employee treatment. Companies are leary of litigation, they avoid it whenever possible.
    Which explains why so many companies have moved their production facilities to countries where they can get away with it.



    BTW: Learn how to use the quote tool. No one wants to read your annoying baby blue pastel fonts.
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    That is no excuse for exploiting human labor.

    I just love this terminology...."exploit".... It is complete nonsense. When a person goes to take a job they are the ones "exploiting" their own labor for financial gain.

    I wonder how many retirees you'd see eating dog food because you don't want them making any money on their investments.
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    Re: Fox News contributor punched in face at pro-union protests in Michigan [W:867]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I just love this terminology...."exploit".... It is complete nonsense. When a person goes to take a job...

    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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