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Thread: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

  1. #81
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Your sexual inuendo won't help you here.
    You nonstop one liners never help you anywhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    I just don't see the RTW as that damaging as others do. MANY unions exist in RTW states. Is the free rider an issue? It can be. I am currently in a discussion in another thread based on the suppostion that the free rider is capable of negotiating a better benefit package than that of the Union's negotiation. This would certainly negate any 'something for nothing' argument and would appear advantageous to the employer...

    Ultimately I believe that RTW will force the Unions to sell themselves better, which shouldn't be that hard to do. There is a certain reliable percentage of the workforce who simply do not want to negotiate benefits themselves and prefer others to ‘just take care of it for me’. I predict that once enough pressure is upon them they will excel and Union participation will explode.

    And to be clear I have no pro/anti position on Unions. If a majority wants to organize, fine with me. I hope it works out for you! (euphemistically of course…)
    Well in RTW states, in a union company by law the union has to represent everyone in the company... union member or not. So if a guy not paying dues to the union gets into a fight with a bossman, and the bossman comes down on him, he can insist that the union represent him. And if they union says they won't he can then sue the union. RTW hamstrings unions in so many ways. And ultimately what I think it does is pit workers against each other which is the way many big orgs fail... just like that from within.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Well in RTW states, in a union company by law the union has to represent everyone in the company... union member or not. So if a guy not paying dues to the union gets into a fight with a bossman, and the bossman comes down on him, he can insist that the union represent him. And if they union says they won't he can then sue the union. RTW hamstrings unions in so many ways. And ultimately what I think it does is pit workers against each other which is the way many big orgs fail... just like that from within.
    False:

    It is a compelling argument, but untrue. The National Labor Relations Act does not mandate unions exclusively represent all employees, but permits them to electively do so. Under the Act, unions can also negotiate "members-only" contracts that only cover dues-paying members. They do not have to represent other employees.

    The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly on this point. As Justice William Brennan wrote in Retail Clerks v. Lion Dry Goods, the Act's coverage "is not limited to labor organizations which are entitled to recognition as exclusive bargaining agents of employees … 'Members only' contracts have long been recognized."
    The Right-to-Freeload Myth
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post

    You do realize that heritage is a Koch think-tank/organization that is and has been geared to destroy unions right?

    Companies can elect NOT to represent a non-union employee and then expect to be sued by that employee for not doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    You do realize that heritage is a Koch think-tank/organization that is and has been geared to destroy unions right?
    Yes, I do. But the portion I quoted was based on case law. Your postion would be more assertive if you merely provided a source to counter their point. Or should I dig up the Supreme court ruling to further solidify their conclusions?

    Companies can elect NOT to represent a non-union employee and then expect to be sued by that employee for not doing so.
    Why would a company represent a non-union employee? Against who, themselves? Or did you mean Union? If so can you support this as it refutes my link.
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    You do realize that heritage is a Koch think-tank/organization that is and has been geared to destroy unions right?
    How do you feel about National Review?

    Bad Arguments Against Right-to-Work - By James Sherk - The Corner - National Review Online

    Notice they link to both the USCOTUS and William Gould, chairman of the NLRB under President Clinton...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    How do you feel about National Review?

    Bad Arguments Against Right-to-Work - By James Sherk - The Corner - National Review Online

    Notice they link to both the USCOTUS and William Gould, chairman of the NLRB under President Clinton...
    Honestly? Not much. Is there any source that isn't either vested in or hell bent on destroying unions that you could cite on this?
    Last edited by poweRob; 12-13-12 at 10:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Honestly? Not much. Is there any source that isn't either vested in or hell bent on destroying unions that you could cite on this?
    How about USCOTUS?

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    Are you at some point going to prove your assertion?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    How about USCOTUS?

    FindLaw | Cases and Codes

    Are you at some point going to prove your assertion?
    Where in that tltr thing is your supporting conclusion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Where in that tltr thing is your supporting conclusion?
    There are several parts that refer to the arrangement but this states it most clearly:

    We conclude …requiring the companies to cease recognizing the Brotherhood 'as the exclusive representative of their employees' stands on a different footing. The contracts do not claim for the Brotherhood exclusive representation of the companies' employees but only representation of those who are its members, and the continued operation of the contracts is necessarily subject to the provision of the law by which representatives of the employees for the purpose of collective bargaining can be ascertained in case any question of 'representation' should arise...
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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