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Thread: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    There's some hidden figures taking action in Michigan and this lame duck legislature and pawn of a governor are their tools. This organized and was rammed through far too quick to be otherwise.
    I'm always game for a good conspiracy theory (and no I'm not being sarcastic). Let me know if you find any leads as to the identities of the hidden figures.

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I will say this about this move... Republicans will pay a price in Michigan for this.
    Michigan, considered a cradle of unionization, has struggled economically in epic, humiliating ways for decades now. Not to say I'm implying direct cause and effect, but the correlation is somewhat undeniable. So, "pay the price?" What has the state got to lose anymore, for chrisake?
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 12-11-12 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Gov Snyder was against removing union rights in that state. The Republicans lost seats in the legislature and are a lame duck crew until January. Snyder just made it clear that he is a pawn. Someone yanked that bitches choke chain and he reversed himself and this was rammed through so fast no one was allowed to debate it. There's some hidden figures taking action in Michigan and this lame duck legislature and pawn of a governor are their tools. This organized and was rammed through far too quick to be otherwise.
    Sort of like PPACA was, and just in time too. Politics work that way sometimes. Timing is everything in politics.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Right to work laws take nothing away from unions (or their workers) except the "right" to create/require closed shop environments; i.e. eliminate the "join our club, pay our dues, support our causes or no job for you" right that they enjoyed in MI, until today.
    The only problem with that is the fact that the main power of most Unions is the fact that they are the sole voice for those employees.

    For example.... In the past the company I work for has utilized Engineering staff as stand-ins for unionized field employees in case of a labor stoppage. When the contract comes due in May of 2013 that's not going to be able to be done anymore, because the Engineering staff are now all Union members with a co-terminous contract date. In fact, one of the best things we have now is the co-terminous dates in (I believe) all of the electric distribution contracts. That is going to force the company to come to the table, make a reasonable offer, and to hopefully get this deal done before we run the risk of a work stoppage. In the past it has always gone down to the wire because the company had a "backup plan". They don't have that option anymore.

    Now, if this were a "Right-to-Work" state, the power of our bargaining unit would likely be reduced because there would be individuals who were "non-union" to do the work if we were forced to walk off the job. These people are somehow allowed to have their cake and eat it too. The company is forced to give them the Union wages, benefits, etc.... but they don't have to pay dues and are not subject to Union discipline. That's total crap so far as I'm concerned.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The only problem with that is the fact that the main power of most Unions is the fact that they are the sole voice for those employees.

    For example.... In the past the company I work for has utilized Engineering staff as stand-ins for unionized field employees in case of a labor stoppage. When the contract comes due in May of 2013 that's not going to be able to be done anymore, because the Engineering staff are now all Union members with a co-terminous contract date. In fact, one of the best things we have now is the co-terminous dates in (I believe) all of the electric distribution contracts. That is going to force the company to come to the table, make a reasonable offer, and to hopefully get this deal done before we run the risk of a work stoppage. In the past it has always gone down to the wire because the company had a "backup plan". They don't have that option anymore.

    Now, if this were a "Right-to-Work" state, the power of our bargaining unit would likely be reduced because there would be individuals who were "non-union" to do the work if we were forced to walk off the job. These people are somehow allowed to have their cake and eat it too. The company is forced to give them the Union wages, benefits, etc.... but they don't have to pay dues and are not subject to Union discipline. That's total crap so far as I'm concerned.
    Given your stance on many other issues on this forum, I am amazed you are pro-union. But I guess I shouldn't be. When it suits us, principles be damned.

    Union discipline? What union discipline? Doing something outside of their job classification because they can perhaps? Staying an extra ten minutes off the clock?
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    I'm always game for a good conspiracy theory (and no I'm not being sarcastic). Let me know if you find any leads as to the identities of the hidden figures.



    Michigan, considered a cradle of unionization, has struggled economically in epic, humiliating ways for decades now. Not to say I'm implying direct cause and effect, but the correlation is somewhat undeniable. So, "pay the price?" What has the state got to lose anymore, for chrisake?
    Everything republican seems to go back to the Kochs. Just about everything republican or conservative(ish).

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    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I will say this about this move... Republicans will pay a price in Michigan for this.
    And get re-elected. It didn't work with the recall votes, it definitely isn't going to work anymore.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Given your stance on many other issues on this forum, I am amazed you are pro-union. But I guess I shouldn't be. When it suits us, principles be damned.

    Union discipline? What union discipline? Doing something outside of their job classification because they can perhaps? Staying an extra ten minutes off the clock?
    Maggie, I am the Steward for the department I work for. I was involved in the movement that Unionized the entire Engineering group at this company. Not because I think the Union is some Utopia (it isn't); but because I've seen what this company will do to its non-union employees at the drop of a hat. I've now worked for this company as a contractor (5 years), non-union employee (3 years) and as a union employee (almost 4 years). Honestly, the four years as a Union employee have been the best of the bunch. Conservatism and unionization are not necesarrily enemies. They can be but they aren't always.

    As for Union discipline; it does exist. Union members can be disciplined for failing to follow Union rules, actions against brothers or sisters in the Union, and a number of other reasons. At the extreme end this can lead to being expelled from the Union, which means losing your job.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    The only problem with that is the fact that the main power of most Unions is the fact that they are the sole voice for those employees.

    For example.... In the past the company I work for has utilized Engineering staff as stand-ins for unionized field employees in case of a labor stoppage. When the contract comes due in May of 2013 that's not going to be able to be done anymore, because the Engineering staff are now all Union members with a co-terminous contract date. In fact, one of the best things we have now is the co-terminous dates in (I believe) all of the electric distribution contracts. That is going to force the company to come to the table, make a reasonable offer, and to hopefully get this deal done before we run the risk of a work stoppage. In the past it has always gone down to the wire because the company had a "backup plan". They don't have that option anymore.

    Now, if this were a "Right-to-Work" state, the power of our bargaining unit would likely be reduced because there would be individuals who were "non-union" to do the work if we were forced to walk off the job. These people are somehow allowed to have their cake and eat it too. The company is forced to give them the Union wages, benefits, etc.... but they don't have to pay dues and are not subject to Union discipline. That's total crap so far as I'm concerned.
    You have it somewhat backwards. You make your demands before you go to work for the company, that is your right to honor the terms of employment offered or go look elsewhere. To come in, "organize" (take over) and then make demands, puts that company or entire industry (and all of its workers) in a tight spot - does it not? The state of MI is watching many of its neighboring states get new business investments, the associated employment opportunities and the taxes that they generate, so they wanted in on that "action" too. True that union power will likely be diminished, but that just might mean the difference between a job and no job for a current non-member (or potential memeber). "Just us" is not the same as "justice", they just sound alike.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Everything republican seems to go back to the Kochs. Just about everything republican or conservative(ish).

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    Good response.

    In Michigan's case, unionization has either done the state no favors, or has failed miserably to save it from its miserable fate. Preserving it in its current state is probably akin to feeding an economic zombie. Kind of like the "living dead" phenomenon in venture capitalism. The state has had an exodus of taxpayers TO every state except OHIO. My wife and I are among them.

    If this legislation causes initial economic adjustment pains and makes things worse initially, maybe it will have an opportunity to rebound later in a more prosperous way. It may sound reckless, but let the state and its people and its industries stand on their own. Stop propping up failure, and you may be surprised to see success start propping up again.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    And get re-elected. It didn't work with the recall votes, it definitely isn't going to work anymore.
    Really? How well did the GOP do in Wisconsin this election? You know, the state where the GOP Veep candidate is from?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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