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Thread: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    There are several parts that refer to the arrangement but this states it most clearly:
    I don't know anything of the case and it's tough trying to surf through that legaleze but what you bolded... that is just a reading of the Labor Board's contract. That's not the ruling on the Labor Board's contract. I believe they are just saying there in that sentence, "This is what the union contract says." They aren't saying there that they agree or disagree with it that I can see in that section.
    Last edited by poweRob; 12-13-12 at 11:45 PM.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I don't know anything of the case and it's tough trying to surf through that legaleze but what you bolded... that is just a reading of the Labor Board's contract. That's not the ruling on the Labor Board's contract. I believe they are just saying there in that sentence, "This is what the union contract says." They aren't saying there that they agree or disagree with it that I can see in that section.
    The 'conclusion' was the decree from the Circuit court which in this case SCOTUS modified (in other areas) and affirmed.

    Further, Their conclusion was to the Board's position that the IBEW were to represent all employees. They found that the contracts do not compel the IBEW exclusive representation of all employees but merely those who are their members. Essentially the court was contradicting the NLRB's direction to all enclusive representation that you asserted. And the SCOTUS affirmed this.
    Last edited by Dickieboy; 12-13-12 at 11:55 PM.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickieboy View Post
    The 'conclusion' was the decree from the Circuit court which in this case SCOTUS modified (in other areas) and affirmed.

    Further, Their conclusion was to the Board's position that the IBEW were to represent all employees. They found that the contracts do not compel the IBEW exclusive representation of all employees but merely those who are their members. Essentially the court was contradicting the NLRB's direction to all enclusive representation that you asserted. And the SCOTUS affirmed this.
    I hate this legaleze. If the conclusion is as you say, then why in the dissent of this does the dissenting justice say this:


    While concurring in general with the conclusions of the Court in Consolidated Edison Company v. National Labor Relations Board and International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers v. National Labor Relations Board, I find myself in disagreement with the conclusion that the National Labor Relations Board was 'without authority to require the petitioning companies [305 U.S. 197, 245] to desist from giving effect to the Brotherhood contracts, as provided in subdivision (f) of paragraph one of the Board's order.


    That kind of sounds like he's dissenting from a conclusion that is ruling against the union.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    No. It's when the Republicans decided to go against unions after the 50's (Check out the "Labor" section of the 1956 Republican platform)... So they assaulted unions every since and the union membership dropped and the economy followed it down. No?
    No. What happened is that in the 1950's, the US was the only major industrialized nation that wasn't a carpet-bombed rubble. We had massive room for waste and inefficiency, and waste we did. Then, the rest of the world started to recover, and Volkswagon, Toyota, and all the rest began to grow and compete. And the inefficient economic model that is unionized industry couldn't keep up. There is a reason why the auto plants in the South are doing just fine, while Detroit is a bankrupt, shuttered-in hole.

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    No. It's when the Republicans decided to go against unions after the 50's (Check out the "Labor" section of the 1956 Republican platform)... So they assaulted unions every since and the union membership dropped and the economy followed it down. No?
    So you agree that unions cannot survive any longer without the government forcing workers to join, or at least pay for them?
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    So you agree that unions cannot survive any longer without the government forcing workers to join, or at least pay for them?
    There are no laws forcing workers to join a union anywhere. The "right-to-work" law doesn't add the right to work.

    It merely bans the ability of employers and unions to voluntarily sign an employment security agreement.

    In other words, it takes away a right.

    As if it isn't already obvious, considering there's already a right to work, i. e. if an employer decided to hire someone to do a job, nothing would stop it without a government banning it, so does it make sense that a law needs to be passed in order to create it

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    I'm really on the fence about this one. I like the general idea of right to work laws (i.e. no one should be forced to join a union if they don't want to). However, I also don't think that people should reap the benefits of union representation without paying for it.

    And I definitely don't like the way this was rushed through a lame duck legislature without really giving the opposition time to discuss or debate the merits of the bill.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    I'm really on the fence about this one. I like the general idea of right to work laws (i.e. no one should be forced to join a union if they don't want to).
    Think--why is a law needed to create a right that already exists?

    Is anyone in the other states forcing employers to hire only union members?

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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Think--why is a law needed to create a right that already exists?

    Is anyone in the other states forcing employers to hire only union members?
    Yes, actually that was the way it worked in Michigan before the law passed. Businesses could be 'closed shop' which meant you had to join the union and pay dues to work there. That's not okay in my book.
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    Re: House votes: Michigan is going to become a 'right-to-work' state for all

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Yes, actually that was the way it worked in Michigan before the law passed.
    Nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Businesses could be 'closed shop' which meant you had to join the union and pay dues to work there.
    No business could be a closed shop unless it voluntarily agreed, via contract to be one.

    The notion that the absence of a so-called "right-to-work" law forced any employer to be a closed shop is just right wing kool-aid.

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