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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    "There will be blood" is an expression, implying political payback. Similar to Sarah Palin putting a gun sight graphic over Gabby Giffords district, putting the congresswomen in the 'Crosshairs'. Palin was also found of saying, "Don't retreat, reload."

    There's a lot emotion in MI, and no reasonable person believes the rep was calling for violence.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    No, unions are not on the side of business. They are on the side of labor. Labor pays for them. Labor votes them in. They are there for labor, not for management. Management is the other team.
    We agree. Unions are parasites. It is best to limit their damage.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    My heart is bleeding....Hey how hard do you think it is to show a consistent gain for the shareholders? I bet they don't do it by boasting a golf palace in Michigan like the union does....

    Your fantasy of unions not asking unreasonable wage demands is really funny.
    I didn't say that they don't ask, now did I?
    I said that the union membership wouldn't vote to strike over it.
    I also said that, if management gives in to unreasonable demands, then they aren't doing their job. It's called "negotiation."

    Ever buy a new car?
    Do you go in and pay the sticker price?
    Do you do your own negotiation, or get some help? It's your choice, of course, just as it is the worker's choice to do their own or not.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I didn't say that they don't ask, now did I?
    I said that the union membership wouldn't vote to strike over it.
    I also said that, if management gives in to unreasonable demands, then they aren't doing their job. It's called "negotiation."

    Ever buy a new car?
    Do you go in and pay the sticker price?
    Do you do your own negotiation, or get some help? It's your choice, of course, just as it is the worker's choice to do their own or not.

    Look, here's the breakdown for ya....The article stated that the pay package average was a total of $79 per hour, that was $28 an hour wage, and the rest was their cadillac health plan, and pension. Now, take that $28 per hour and over 40 hours that equals a straight $1,120 per week, or $58,240 per year...Now, consider a reasonable overtime amount, of say 10 hours per week, at time and a half, that bumps them to $80,080 per year, not bad for working the line.

    Now consider that if you started at age 19 like many of my buddies did in Lansing straight out of High School, they are over 30 years service now and ready to retire at age 50, with lifetime continuation of their health care (best in the nation), and 75% of their highest pay year, using the $80K number that would be $60K per year for the REST of their lives.

    You tell me who pays for that? Or if that is fair, or taking advantage? I have bought more than one car in my lifetime, and the cost added on for this crap is what is making it harder to sell American cars in this country. It is also a reason that these companies are leaving Michigan for the south, or over to China. The model is unsustainable.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    We,ll get back to fiscal responsibility when the bush tax-cuts expire.
    I totally agree with you here and not just for the rich. All the tax cuts need to expire 40% cut in military and stop all of the corporate welfare and then we can think about adjusting Medicare and Medicade . Oh and end that big pharma give way that Bush did as well

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Look, here's the breakdown for ya....The article stated that the pay package average was a total of $79 per hour, that was $28 an hour wage, and the rest was their cadillac health plan, and pension. Now, take that $28 per hour and over 40 hours that equals a straight $1,120 per week, or $58,240 per year...Now, consider a reasonable overtime amount, of say 10 hours per week, at time and a half, that bumps them to $80,080 per year, not bad for working the line.

    Now consider that if you started at age 19 like many of my buddies did in Lansing straight out of High School, they are over 30 years service now and ready to retire at age 50, with lifetime continuation of their health care (best in the nation), and 75% of their highest pay year, using the $80K number that would be $60K per year for the REST of their lives.

    You tell me who pays for that? Or if that is fair, or taking advantage? I have bought more than one car in my lifetime, and the cost added on for this crap is what is making it harder to sell American cars in this country. It is also a reason that these companies are leaving Michigan for the south, or over to China. The model is unsustainable.
    Yes it is very fair considering the CEO of that comapny will retire with benefits that are 200% better than a man that did his work for 30 years as opposed to a person who worked for 10

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    I totally agree with you here and not just for the rich. All the tax cuts need to expire 40% cut in military and stop all of the corporate welfare and then we can think about adjusting Medicare and Medicade . Oh and end that big pharma give way that Bush did as well

    Hell, why stop there? You obviously believe that the money people earn is yours, so just take it all, and give people a stipend to live on.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hell, why stop there? You obviously believe that the money people earn is yours, so just take it all, and give people a stipend to live on.
    No I dont the biggest drivers of the debt were the Bush tav cuts. We had a surplus before boy wonder got into office and just like Republicans do when in power they charge up the credit card. See Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2. Obama had to clean up the mess left by the Republican congress and President.


    Your reply shows you are not serious about this countries debt problem.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Yes it is very fair considering the CEO of that comapny will retire with benefits that are 200% better than a man that did his work for 30 years as opposed to a person who worked for 10

    Your jealousy is unbecoming. If the line worker is upset at what he or she makes as opposed to the CEO of a multi national company, then maybe instead of drinking booze, and smoking pot on their breaks, and all through out High School, they should have excelled in business in collage, and got the job....Don't be silly.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Look, here's the breakdown for ya....The article stated that the pay package average was a total of $79 per hour, that was $28 an hour wage, and the rest was their cadillac health plan, and pension. Now, take that $28 per hour and over 40 hours that equals a straight $1,120 per week, or $58,240 per year...Now, consider a reasonable overtime amount, of say 10 hours per week, at time and a half, that bumps them to $80,080 per year, not bad for working the line.

    Now consider that if you started at age 19 like many of my buddies did in Lansing straight out of High School, they are over 30 years service now and ready to retire at age 50, with lifetime continuation of their health care (best in the nation), and 75% of their highest pay year, using the $80K number that would be $60K per year for the REST of their lives.

    You tell me who pays for that? Or if that is fair, or taking advantage? I have bought more than one car in my lifetime, and the cost added on for this crap is what is making it harder to sell American cars in this country. It is also a reason that these companies are leaving Michigan for the south, or over to China. The model is unsustainable.
    That unsustainable contract is what the management agreed to. If it was not sustainable, and it's easy to see why it isn't, then that is not the fault of the union, nor the workers who hired them to negotiate for them. No one forced management to agree to unreasonable demands.
    Someone did a poor job of negotiation.

    As for the "American" brands, if there really is any such thing any more, I totally disagree that the added costs are the reasons they haven't been selling as briskly as some of the other brands. Look at the prices of similar models of Honda, Toyota, and Chevrolet, for example, and you'll see that the prices are quite similar. Chevy is most likely going to be the least expensive, as a matter of fact. Look at Consumer Reports, however, and talk to people who have owned these brands before, and you'll get the same story: Hondas and Toyotas are much more reliable and better designed. That's why the big three automakers are in trouble. It's called "competition", and without it, Chrysler, Ford and GM would still be selling us tail fins.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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