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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Lawyers are a problem.....Until you need one....heheh....But come on Ditto....$79 per hour total compensation to attach two wheels and tires to each car coming down the line? Really?
    You sound jealous
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
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    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Given that you are retired what difference does it make to you?

    Is it possible that what you see as an attack on unions is actually an effort by the state government to make itself more competitive? I know that Alabama has won the last few job competitions. Maybe the state is tired of losing all the competition for more jobs. Becoming a right to work state puts them back in the game.

    Becoming a right to work state puts them back in the game
    This is what becoming a right to work state gets ya.


    Persons below poverty level, percent, 2007-2011 Us =17.6%.............. Alabama=14.3%

    Per capita income 2007-2011 US=$27,915............Alabama=$23,483


    Persons below poverty level, percent, 2007-2011 US=17.6% .............Alabama= 14.3%

    High school graduate or higher, percent of persons age 25+, 2007-2011 US=85.4% Alabama =81.9%
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    How this for a "corporate legislative advantage"?

    Federal laws prohibiting unions from spending general funds on politics if its members object to such use. Corps are free to spend their general treasuries on politics while the stockholders object to the financing of the political activity they are engaged in.
    Really. You dont understand that stockholders are voluntary? They can sell out their shares at any point if they dont agree with corporate positions. Further if corporations spend too much on political activity they have a board to answer to and that board is ultimately answerable to stockholders. Stockholders expect a return on their investment, if any expense is too high they will want to know why and curtail it if its too much.

    Unions spent billions in the last few election cycles. They dont seem to have any problem getting around general funds limitations. Just to clarify, individual members cannot object can they? It has to be a majority vote objection doesnt it? Just checking, because Im not sure on this one.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    This is what becoming a right to work state gets ya.


    Persons below poverty level, percent, 2007-2011 Us =17.6%.............. Alabama=14.3%

    Per capita income 2007-2011 US=$27,915............Alabama=$23,483


    Persons below poverty level, percent, 2007-2011 US=17.6% .............Alabama= 14.3%

    High school graduate or higher, percent of persons age 25+, 2007-2011 US=85.4% Alabama =81.9%
    Per usual if you want to cite statistic facts, please cite them so we can see the entire picture not just the one you want us to see.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Dues are there for a reason. And it has nothing to do with your geographic location. Apparently that part has completely went through your skull. No one forces you to join a union, I imagine before you go into a career you learn a little about what it takes to start that career. If you didn't want to join a union I'm assuming you would pick a different career.

    Just like I would never choose to work in a fast food restaurant because I wouldn't want to smell like french fries. I wouldn't go demanding that they stop making french fries just cause I want to work there, how arrogant of me would that be.


    Kill the golden goose.. ? not following you there dude..

    Union curse...? now you just sound like a Inquisition going on a witch hunt.
    Dues are taken from workers with out their consent by draconian State laws that implicitly take away their rights. What's worse is those dues are then sent to Democrat re-election funds to re-install more useless Democrats who's ideology is to weigh down the private sector.

    The modern day union supporter still thinks we have the same type of economy we had in the 1960's, the same manufacturing base when in reality America's largest economic sector is the Tertiary sector and manufacturing is now a global market.

    In fact the Unions have elected time and time again a party that ignorantly drives out the private sector and the manufacturing base with high taxes and regulations.
    You guys should re-think your political positions.

    The Union could only grow and survive if it has the benefits of mandates. Mandated Union Dues in a Union shop or State. Mandated manufacturing base by imposing massive tariffs on imported goods. Mandated participation through oppression or laws that force Non-Union members out or give Union members Carte-Blanche to attack "scabs" and non-union supporters.

    So the survival of the Unions depend on taking choices away from free people in a free economy. If the Unions ran the show manufactured items would be made in america with strict union control over compensation thus cutting out the benefit of free trade agreements and competition between Corporations. And it's members in spite of their political position are forced to

    Remember the Chrysler K-Car ? The cars of the 70's and early 80's that were so badly built a 100k life span was a miracle ?

    You've killed the golden goose by pushing a level of compensation in both the private and the public sector that cannot be supported by natural market forces and you did it in a global economy.

    You personified the Corporate entities as the old stereo-typical ""fat cat" rich greedy Capitalist when most modern Corporations are public and owe their profits to share holders as dividends. And then the Unions supported a President that supposedly is pro-union but has imposed policies on the private sector that cause corporations and growth to shrink, to move elsewhere or simply shut down.

    The UAW ran GM into the ground with outrageous compensation levels for unskilled, uneducated Americans that packed on legacy cost into the thousands on every car GM sold and when the company should have gone bankrupt Obama soaked the bond holders and gave 51% control to the unions.. how unbelievably stupid.

    Did i help ? No, GM is still going to wind up going bankrupt and now the Unions are left with a shrinking private sector base and a public sector that's struggling to pay it's workers. HELL the Federal Govt's paying their employees with borrowed money. How strong is a Union that relying on borrowed monopoly money to keep them afloat ?

    So you support the political party that's marginalized the people that hire you and price yourself out of a global manufacturing market and still insist with archaic arguments that Unions are still relevant. That are literally reaching into the pockets of workers whether they like it or not and then contribute to Democrat campaigns and/or candidates.

    Unions and the politicians that support them have turned entire States into desperate situations with workers leaving to look for a way to support their families. When a legislature finally tries to get control of their states fiscal issues the Unions lose it and turn to destructive and violent mob. Get over it, be respectable and realize the voters have chosen to elect Republican politicians.

    Sorry guys but Unions are shrinking because of Union tactic's and their demands for compensation that are not supportable in the WORLD economy. The sooner the Unions let go of the old way of looking at things and remember that ALL workers deserve the choice of paying dues and/or entering a union the better off you'll guys be.
    The New Democratic Party Slogan :

    " Return to Power By Any Means Necessary "

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Careful, Conservative. You're getting dangerously close to my own point of view.

    Can I explain that 3.8 trillion dollars? Sure. It's the result of decades of out of control government growth, much of which has happened during the past five or six years.

    I've got a solution, too. It's quite simple, really:

    No more giving away money, not to foreign powers, not to corporations, not to individuals, not to anyone. End the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and the war on terror. Fund the military, but let's not spend as much as the rest of the world combined. In short, let's quit wasting money. Spend what is saved upgrading our infrastructure, funding research, but not subsidizing plants, not even "green" ones. There is private venture capital for that, after all.
    There really isn't a lot of difference between a Conservative and a Libertarian when it comes to fiscal responsibility.

    The problem with the budgeting process is it is a baseline budget which means that if a department spends the money that is the baseline which means they get more money the next year. There never is any incentive to save. Budgets are yearly and deficits are yearly. Obama has yet to have a deficit under a trillion dollars. Bush had one deficit over a trillion dollars in 8 years.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    QUOTE OpportunityCost

    ]Really. You dont understand that stockholders are voluntary?
    And someone should have to sell their stock because some wingnut CEO decides that he wants to donate YOUR MONEY to a political campaign?


    They can sell out their shares at any point if they dont agree with corporate positions.

    Just as those that disagree with joining a union shop can go for the next job opportunity.

    Further if corporations spend too much on political activity they have a board to answer to and that board is ultimately answerable to stockholders. Stockholders expect a return on their investment, if any expense is too high they will want to know why and curtail it if its too much.
    And the corp board is dominated by what? corporate CEOS. Stuffing stockholders money in there pockets for rubbers stamping the Corp CEOS plan four times a year.


    Unions spent billions in the last few election cycles.

    The 2012 election was the most expensive election in the history of the WORLD; topping $6 billion. From what I’ve read 69% of that dough,THIS CYCLE ALONE, was spent on backing conservative causes. Where did you get the info that unions spent billions from?And how many do you consider” the last few election cycles“?

    They dont seem to have any problem getting around general funds limitations.

    clarify this.

    Just to clarify, individual members cannot object can they?
    Yes. What they donate if voluntary, most is leg work and phone banks also by volunteers/union members
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Per usual if you want to cite statistic facts, please cite them so we can see the entire picture not just the one you want us to see.

    Census Bureau Homepage
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    The 2012 election was the most expensive election in the history of the WORLD; topping $6 billion. From what I’ve read 69% of that dough,THIS CYCLE ALONE, was spent on backing conservative causes.
    Jeez! It sounds like they were really motivated. I wonder why. Do you have any ideas?
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Lawyers are a problem.....Until you need one....heheh....But come on Ditto....$79 per hour total compensation to attach two wheels and tires to each car coming down the line? Really?
    The union can't decide to pay someone $79 an hour for a job that is probably worth less than half of that. All it can do is negotiate on the behalf of its clients. If management gives away the store, that's their fault.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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