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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    The bottom line is: This attack on unions is all about one thing. The right wings need to demonize someone for the troubles they see going on in the country.

    The left does it too, but in this topic of discussion the right is simply pointing the finger at Unions and saying "You are what is wrong with this country" and instead giving the pass to SO many others that might better suit that accusation.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
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    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    The bottom line is: This attack on unions is all about one thing. The right wings need to demonize someone for the troubles they see going on in the country.

    The left does it too, but in this topic of discussion the right is simply pointing the finger at Unions and saying "You are what is wrong with this country" and instead giving the pass to SO many others that might better suit that accusation.

    Unions have dropped to a 7% membership rate in this country....Ever ask yourself why that would be, if it is such a great model?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    In a "non-right to work state" unionized industries require you to join the union if you want a job.

    "Right to work" means an individual has the choice weather or not to join the union.

    Progressives and unions in general believe workers shouldn't have the right opt out.

    Unions are against "right to work" because they know their leverage over the business would go bye-bye, because their threats of shutting down businesses would become moot if those who chose not to join the union could continue to work during a strike. Not to mention fading membership among other union ideas workers are forced into.

    Considering what unions allege what they stand for is already federal law, there really is no reason to join a union - and every knowledgeable and intelligent worker that is a union member knows this.

    You shouldn't have to join a union if you don't want to just to work and put food on your table, neither should I or anyone else.

    I'd rather work for 20 bucks an hour than get 20.50 an hour and have to pay union dues of 100 bucks a month.

    Screw that.
    Then, obviously, you would choose the 20 bucks an hour job and forgo the union. That's your choice, as it should be.

    What shouldn't be your choice would be to work in a plant where the workers are represented by a union, but not pay your dues. That would be the same thing as opting for a condo in a gated community where dues pay for the clubhouse, swimming pool, tennis courts and landscaping, but deciding you didn't want to pay the homeowner's association dues. It would be like finding a way to buy gas that isn't taxed, then used it to drive on highways paid for by everyone else. It would be being a freeloader.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Who's complaining about what someone else pays in taxes? I pay a good chunk of my wages, I could pay more if it meant reducing the national debt and putting us in a healthier place overall in this country.
    Most people agree with you as do I however the problem is higher taxes have never gone to reducing the debt, economic growth creating revenue is better than raising taxes. This country has a spending problem and isn't being addressed. All Congress and the President do is micromanage the economy and individual lives. The last Bush full year of spending in 2008 was less than 3 trillion dollars and that includes all the cost of the war for that year as well as Medicare Part D. The war in Iraq is over and Obama spent 3.8 trillion dollars in 2012. You explain that to me.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    The bottom line is: This attack on unions is all about one thing. The right wings need to demonize someone for the troubles they see going on in the country.
    Given that you are retired what difference does it make to you?

    Is it possible that what you see as an attack on unions is actually an effort by the state government to make itself more competitive? I know that Alabama has won the last few job competitions. Maybe the state is tired of losing all the competition for more jobs. Becoming a right to work state puts them back in the game.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Most people agree with you as do I however the problem is higher taxes have never gone to reducing the debt, economic growth creating revenue is better than raising taxes. This country has a spending problem and isn't being addressed. All Congress and the President do is micromanage the economy and individual lives. The last Bush full year of spending in 2008 was less than 3 trillion dollars and that includes all the cost of the war for that year as well as Medicare Part D. The war in Iraq is over and Obama spent 3.8 trillion dollars in 2012. You explain that to me.
    Careful, Conservative. You're getting dangerously close to my own point of view.

    Can I explain that 3.8 trillion dollars? Sure. It's the result of decades of out of control government growth, much of which has happened during the past five or six years.

    I've got a solution, too. It's quite simple, really:

    No more giving away money, not to foreign powers, not to corporations, not to individuals, not to anyone. End the war on drugs, the war on poverty, and the war on terror. Fund the military, but let's not spend as much as the rest of the world combined. In short, let's quit wasting money. Spend what is saved upgrading our infrastructure, funding research, but not subsidizing plants, not even "green" ones. There is private venture capital for that, after all.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Then, obviously, you would choose the 20 bucks an hour job and forgo the union. That's your choice, as it should be.

    What shouldn't be your choice would be to work in a plant where the workers are represented by a union, but not pay your dues. That would be the same thing as opting for a condo in a gated community where dues pay for the clubhouse, swimming pool, tennis courts and landscaping, but deciding you didn't want to pay the homeowner's association dues. It would be like finding a way to buy gas that isn't taxed, then used it to drive on highways paid for by everyone else. It would be being a freeloader.

    Nonsense....The union doesn't own that business, and didn't build it. They worked there, and one could argue have over time held it back.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense....The union doesn't own that business, and didn't build it. They worked there, and one could argue have over time held it back.
    The union doesn't own the business, nor does it work there. The employees who hired the union work there. It is the job of the union to work for better salaries and working conditions for their employees.

    The union- worker relationship is much like the lawyer - client relationship. The difference is, no one seems to think it is wrong for a group or individual to be represented by a lawyer.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The union doesn't own the business, nor does it work there. The employees who hired the union work there. It is the job of the union to work for better salaries and working conditions for their employees.

    The union- worker relationship is much like the lawyer - client relationship. The difference is, no one seems to think it is wrong for a group or individual to be represented by a lawyer.

    Lawyers are a problem.....Until you need one....heheh....But come on Ditto....$79 per hour total compensation to attach two wheels and tires to each car coming down the line? Really?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Unions have dropped to a 7% membership rate in this country....Ever ask yourself why that would be, if it is such a great model?
    Because Republicans and Conservatives like you have got a hard-on for attacking everything we stand for simply because we contribute to the democratic party.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
    - Abraham Lincoln

    Before the war is ended, the war party assumes the divine right to denounce and silence all opposition to war as unpatriotic and cowardly.
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

    God, how patient are Thy poor! These corporations and masters of manipulation in finance heaping up great fortunes by a system of legalized extortion,
    and then exacting from the contributors--to whom a little means so much--a double share to guard the treasure!
    - Robert M. LaFollette, Wisconsin Governor and U.S. Senator

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