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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

  1. #301
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    That would be the definition that I would use to define a liberal since choice only matters when it comes to issues that a liberal wants and one whose opinion is the same as another liberal. To me a liberal thinks with their heart instead of their brain. Isn't it amazing how so many people here that have never run a business, never employed anyone else are such experts in the field of business? It would make sense that in this country where you can be whatever you want to be that some of these experts would start their own business, hire employees, and pay them whatever they deem as a living wage but somehow never do it.
    I see. So, my definition was correct. Liberals are anti choice, unless the choice is one they themselves would have made. Therefore, you are pro choice, even for choices you think are wrong. Liberals think with their hearts, therefore, you are logical as Spock. Liberals have never run a business, but you have, and are successful and are an expert in the field of business. All of that, of course, can be inferred from your being the opposite of a liberal.

    I think we're getting close to your philosophy. The pro choice part of it sounds pretty libertarian to me.
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Do you have anything to support your position or not?
    Yep, it is called a unified budget. That supports my position but then again I suspect you know that

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Exactly, this is about choice by the individual and it seems that the liberals only accept choice that supports their point of view. This is total arrogance in believing that the American people aren't smart enough to choose wisely when it comes to their employment, wage, and benefits opportunities and thus need union leadership to decide what is best for them.

    Unions have outlived their usefulness as evidenced by the small percentage of the labor force now unionized. We have laws on the books now to protect workers many of which came from union efforts but those efforts are no longer needed as the laws protect the workers so enforce the laws.
    But I still have no problems with unions. If two people want to use their collective power to try and negotiate with an employer, have at it. So long as the employer has the right to say no, and the employees or union have a right to quit. The problem is entirely on govt who has gotten in the middle of a simple employment contract.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    But I still have no problems with unions. If two people want to use their collective power to try and negotiate with an employer, have at it. So long as the employer has the right to say no, and the employees or union have a right to quit. The problem is entirely on govt who has gotten in the middle of a simple employment contract.
    The only problem I have with unions are the public unions where I believe all wage and benefits should be put on the ballot for the voters to decide. I don't like politicians getting campaign contributions to vote on specific wage and benefit issues that the taxpayers have to fund long after the politician is out of office.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Because the entire line of "Right to Work" is total B.S.

    No one is forced to join a union. However, a scab will be required to pay 85% of the standard union dues in the form of a negotiations fee as return for the union wage he is earning, a wage which the union obtained at its own expense.

    What "Right to Work" really amounts to is giving the scab the right to collect a union wage without paying the negotiations fee, thus garnering a significantly higher wage for the scab than the dues-paying union member. Obviously, the intent of so-called "Right to Work" is to encourage union members to jump ship and join the scabs by giving a financial incentive to do so.

    "Right to Work" is just a veiled method of union-busting.
    Your point is based on the a presumption that the 'scab' cannot get a better deal than the union for HIS individual compensation. Consider if the 'scab' did individually negotiate a better compensation package AND through fair negotiation discovery the union finds out the 'scab's' package then moves their goal to his should the 'scab' then receive the negotiation fee the union would have justified?
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure" - 2006 Senator Obama...leadership failure indeed!

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yep, it is called a unified budget. That supports my position but then again I suspect you know that
    Just saying "unified budget" does not support your position.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Just saying "unified budget" does not support your position.
    It most certainly does, a unified budget puts all funds into that budget with all tax dollars treated the same way. No one knows what tax funds what line item. Apparently you don't understand the term unified budget and what it actually is

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Of course it is because we know that living in California is just as expensive as living in Indiana. Talk about wacked out nonsense. Wages should be determined by the market place and not a union or the federal govt. why don't you start hiring people and help solve the problems you say we have in this country?
    Hogwash, you are not interested in fair wages, you are interested in seeking the lowest wages, you are a company man, a corporatist, an anti-union provocateur.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If what you say is true, then why is it that when union members have a choice, they are unlikely to pay dues? It's your own members that unions fear when right-to-work goes into effect. Their own members don't want to pay the dues. Are they scabs?
    Maybe I'm not making this clear enough. I'll try again.

    Suppose you are a dues-paying member of a union, on the line at a widget factory. Mr. Scab, the guy working next to you, is a non-union worker. You are both earning $1000.00 per week union wage, paid weekly. The union dues are $100.00 per pay, of which you, as a dues-paying union worker, are paying 100%, while Mr. Scab, as a non-union worker is paying 0%. Obviously, Mr. Scab is going to be making significantly more money than you by year's end as a non-union worker collecting a union wage, and for doing nothing more than being a scab.

    Do you get it now?

    If you do, then I'm sure you can see that, in the fullness of time, so many union workers will take the bait and crossover to the scab side that the union will no longer be able to afford its operating expenses and will dissolve. Then, of course, so will the union wage.
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Is there some reason that you cannot admit that you are wrong? What is a unified budget? Maybe you can get some of your employees to explain it to you?
    YOU brought forward the links to what Johnson did, none of it supported your view that SSTF were used to finance the Vietnam war. You then demand that I prove a negative since you couldn't support what you claimed. All you have now is flailing failure.

    Concede, you are wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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