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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Lets do that at the federal level then and eliminate benefits for anyone who doesnt pay taxes. Anyone who benefits from the countires efforts without paying for it...is a freeloader. You have a choice. If you dont want to pay for benefits, then you dont get them. So, if you are poor, you dont get medicare, social security, welfare, unemployment checks, food stamps, etc.
    The poor do pay for medicare and Social security, if they have jobs.
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor


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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The poor do pay for medicare and Social security, if they have jobs.
    I don't understand the disconnect here as SS and Medicare were created as a retirement supplemental and the funds were never intended to fund the Federal Government operating expenses. The fact that working poor do pay into SS and Medicare is irrelevant as they get that money back when they retire or shouldn't they have to pay anything for that retirement and healthcare?

    The Federal Operating expenses are funded by the Federal Income taxes. Included in those expenses is the debt service on the debt. Here again are the line items in the Federal Budget that are funded by Federal Income Taxes. Almost half the country pay nothing for those expenses. These are the expenses that Obama wants to pay for by increasing taxes on the rich. Raising those taxes back to Clinton levels only generates 80 billion a year if there are no consequences for that tax increase. That money will not fund the govt. for 8 days.

    So let's be real here and start talking about expenses, what taxes fund what expense, and what expenses does the Federal Govt. really need. we also cannot forget state taxes and what those taxes fund either. Seems a lot of people do not understand taxes and continue to buy the Obama rhetoric.

    Expenses

    Defense
    International Affairs
    Gen. Science, Space
    Energy
    Natural resources/env
    Agriculture
    Commerce/Housing Cr
    Transportation
    Community Dev
    Education/Train/Social
    Health
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    General Govt.
    Net Interest

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I don't understand the disconnect here as SS and Medicare were created as a retirement supplemental and the funds were never intended to fund the Federal Government operating expenses. The fact that working poor do pay into SS and Medicare is irrelevant as they get that money back when they retire or shouldn't they have to pay anything for that retirement and healthcare?

    The Federal Operating expenses are funded by the Federal Income taxes. Included in those expenses is the debt service on the debt. Here again are the line items in the Federal Budget that are funded by Federal Income Taxes. Almost half the country pay nothing for those expenses. These are the expenses that Obama wants to pay for by increasing taxes on the rich. Raising those taxes back to Clinton levels only generates 80 billion a year if there are no consequences for that tax increase. That money will not fund the govt. for 8 days.

    So let's be real here and start talking about expenses, what taxes fund what expense, and what expenses does the Federal Govt. really need. we also cannot forget state taxes and what those taxes fund either. Seems a lot of people do not understand taxes and continue to buy the Obama rhetoric.
    SS and Medicare have been going into the general fund since the "Great Society" of the '60s. That money has been used for everything from welfare to wars, leaving a big pile of IOUs, and hand wringing about how we now need to "reform" those programs as they are starting to yield a negative cash flow.

    Let's just call payroll taxes what they are, taxes.
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Really? What proof do you have of this? Right-to-work states have an unemployment rate average somewhere in the 6% range. Michigan is a freakin' mess. Their cities are set to self-destruct. Collective bargaining rights remain in tact in this bill. This legislation simply means that unions will have to compete for their customers...you know, like everybody else in business. When cities/towns/states are falling apart...when a state's unemployment rate is 9.3%, extreme measures -- thinking outside the box -- needs to happen. Union members say, "We've got ours....the rest of you can go to hell in a handbasket." This legislation says, "Let's see if we can bring in more jobs."
    Right to work states have lower wages, bad healthcare, bad education ! That is a fact it is not right to work it is called right to fire. I guess you support CEo's gutting compaines and paying hirer wages to themselves and then filing for bankruptcy and blaming the workers. Texas has created the most minimum wage jobs in the country!

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Right to work states have lower wages, bad healthcare, bad education ! That is a fact it is not right to work it is called right to fire. I guess you support CEo's gutting compaines and paying hirer wages to themselves and then filing for bankruptcy and blaming the workers. Texas has created the most minimum wage jobs in the country!
    Minnesota is a right to work state. The healthcare is tops in the nation. So is education. I'm not really sure about wages, but I know the standard of living is among the best.

    P.S. We also have some of the highest tax rates and are currently bleeding jobs because of it.
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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Right to work states have lower wages, bad healthcare, bad education ! That is a fact it is not right to work it is called right to fire. I guess you support CEo's gutting compaines and paying hirer wages to themselves and then filing for bankruptcy and blaming the workers. Texas has created the most minimum wage jobs in the country!
    Yet you chose to remain in TX. Why did you not move from Ft. Worth to Detroit and enjoy higher wages, better education and better healthcare? Get real!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    One thing I never understood is the need for public sector unions. It is not like the government is concerned with efficiency and/or making money and might try to short change the workers for profit. If anything the governmemt is too generous with other people's money. Are the unions there to better share the gravy with the more connected people within the public sector?

    I can see in the private sector needing unions, since any business would like to minimize expenses, which might mean short changing worker rights and benefits. But when the public sector boss can wastefully borrow and spend other people's money, and then tax or print more money, and has no reason to be efficient or frugal, what is the need? Is it a bigger share of the looted booty?
    Last edited by Well; 12-12-12 at 11:57 AM.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    SS and Medicare have been going into the general fund since the "Great Society" of the '60s. That money has been used for everything from welfare to wars, leaving a big pile of IOUs, and hand wringing about how we now need to "reform" those programs as they are starting to yield a negative cash flow.

    Let's just call payroll taxes what they are, taxes.
    That is the easy way out, call taxes taxes and ignore their intent. It is easy calling for increased taxes on the rich when the majority in this country don't understand what FIT funds. Too many fall into that trap and that is exactly what Obama and liberals want.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    Right to work states have lower wages, bad healthcare, bad education ! That is a fact it is not right to work it is called right to fire. I guess you support CEo's gutting compaines and paying hirer wages to themselves and then filing for bankruptcy and blaming the workers. Texas has created the most minimum wage jobs in the country!
    That is typical liberal talking points and a downright lie. California has over a million more on minimum wage than TX but it is California minimum wage of $8 an hour. Right to work states are creating jobs, union states are losing jobs. Would you prefer no job to having a job?

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