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Thread: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Which one would that be?
    Proposition 2, defeated 58% - 42% last month.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    I was just thinking about this angle. Its comical to see the role reversal between this thread and ones about federal entitlements. The same argument applies, the hard work of some is being poached by freeloaders. Pretty funny stuff.
    Exactly, the US should become a 'right to live' country, where you are not forced to pay dues.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by TaraAnne View Post
    The majority of Michigans population does not want right to work. But the Koch brothers do! This has nothing to do with workers this has everything to do with a bunch of spineless Rethugs keeping their cushy jobs!
    Really? What proof do you have of this? Right-to-work states have an unemployment rate average somewhere in the 6% range. Michigan is a freakin' mess. Their cities are set to self-destruct. Collective bargaining rights remain in tact in this bill. This legislation simply means that unions will have to compete for their customers...you know, like everybody else in business. When cities/towns/states are falling apart...when a state's unemployment rate is 9.3%, extreme measures -- thinking outside the box -- needs to happen. Union members say, "We've got ours....the rest of you can go to hell in a handbasket." This legislation says, "Let's see if we can bring in more jobs."
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    They shouldn't receive any union representation if they don't pay dues, but whatever pay and benefits they negotiate with the company on their own has nothing to do with the union, nor is it any of the union's business.
    Exactly, an employee can choose whether to negotitate direcltly with their employer, or pay the union to represent them.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Proposition 2, defeated 58% - 42% last month.
    Because it would have amended the Michigan constitution.

    A lot of the Michigan people did not want the Michigan constitution admened but still suported the unions.

    The official ballot text read as follows:

    "PROPOSAL 12-2
    A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION REGARDING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

    This proposal would:
    Grant public and private employees the constitutional right to organize and bargain collectively through labor unions.

    Invalidate existing or future state or local laws that limit the ability to join unions and bargain collectively, and to negotiate and enforce collective bargaining agreements, including employees’ financial support of their labor unions. Laws may be enacted to prohibit public employees from striking.

    Override state laws that regulate hours and conditions of employment to the extent that those laws conflict with collective bargaining agreements.

    Define “employer” as a person or entity employing one or more employees.


    Should this proposal be approved?
    YES __
    NO ____ "
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Right-to-work laws have nothing to do with an actual right to work. Everyone always has the ability to work for anyone who hires him/her, including in states that don't have so-called "right to work" laws.

    The only thing the laws do is prohibit union-security agreement contracts, which simply state that if an employer hires a union member, that employer is required to only hire other members of that same union.

    In other words, it's a voluntary agreement, not a mandatory one. A firm can always decide not to hire any union worker in a non-right-to-work state, and then that firm will be subject to no agreement.

    So, in a nutshell, right-to-work laws (totally misnamed) are an affront to a free market, because in a free market, all contracts between individuals and organizations should be allowed.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Because it would have amended the Michigan constitution.

    A lot of the Michigan people did not want the Michigan constitution admened but still suported the unions.
    The amendment didn't say you had to have a union, just enshrining the fact that you could, and it still got shot down by almost a 2-1 margin.

    Now its law that you don't have to join a union or pay dues as condition of employment. You can still join a union or pay dues. The employee now has a choice, which is better than being forced.

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    So, in a nutshell, right-to-work laws (totally misnamed) are an affront to a free market, because in a free market, all contracts between individuals and organizations should be allowed.
    You cannot agree to a contract that contains illegal provisions. Well....you can agree to it, but it's not enforceable. All contracts between individuals and organizations should not be allowed.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  9. #159
    Why so serious?

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    can't agree
    if they disassociate with the union and negotiate their own terms, those terms must be made available to the union


    who the hell do they think they are, the NFL owners [/s]
    It makes no sense that the individual, non-union employee's terms of employment be made available to the union. They had nothing to do with it, and if the individual shouldn't benefit from union efforts, then neither should the union benefit from the efforts of an individual they don't represent. Fair is fair, after all.
    "I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."

    --Albert Einstein, 1929

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    Re: Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    It makes no sense that the individual, non-union employee's terms of employment be made available to the union. They had nothing to do with it, and if the individual shouldn't benefit from union efforts, then neither should the union benefit from the efforts of an individual they don't represent. Fair is fair, after all.
    the individual can have access to the union negotiated agreement for purposes of information gathering about what management finds reasonable
    the union should have access to what management finds acceptable in regard to negotiating contracts for its represented employees when compared to other similarly situated employees. it's a 'good faith bargaining' expectation
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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