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Thread: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

  1. #171
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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Actually recent history seems to show that every dollar of debt we take on only creates about 25 cents in growth, so it is hardly a boom; and paving roads really does not create a huge amount of economic activity as it is something we already have. A lot of things need to be done, but don't believe that it is somehow saving us money or generating piles of cash. Those simple economics, however, is why we will be going onto $20T debt and the national debt interest only payments will exceed what we spend on our big old bloated military in fairly short order, so it is more like the economics of Christmas shopping at a rent to own store to some people.
    We haven't been able to get legislation passed to rebuild out infrastructure. If and when that happens, it will create a boom by creating jobs. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, so it's not like we will just be repaving roads that don't need to be repaved. Spending money in a way that will create a lot of jobs will cause more tax money to come into the coffers from a wide range of taxes. It's one of those things that will pay for it self. Once the jobs are created, thats when we should tackle the debt and we will have plenty of revenue to do that. Keeping the unemployment high will only force us to have to barrow more money with no hope of increasing revenue.

    In a personal budget, you wouldn't cut your spending on gas money for the car so you can pay down your credit card because you wouldn't be able to get to work to bring in an income. It's the same principle. We all have to spend some money to make money. It's really not rocket science. It's basic economics 101

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    We haven't been able to get legislation passed to rebuild out infrastructure. If and when that happens, it will create a boom by creating jobs. There is a lot of work that needs to be done, so it's not like we will just be repaving roads that don't need to be repaved. Spending money in a way that will create a lot of jobs will cause more tax money to come into the coffers from a wide range of taxes. It's one of those things that will pay for it self. Once the jobs are created, thats when we should tackle the debt and we will have plenty of revenue to do that. Keeping the unemployment high will only force us to have to barrow more money with no hope of increasing revenue.

    In a personal budget, you wouldn't cut your spending on gas money for the car so you can pay down your credit card because you wouldn't be able to get to work to bring in an income. It's the same principle. We all have to spend some money to make money. It's really not rocket science. It's basic economics 101
    It really doesn't create that many jobs. It just maintains jobs we have. Most infrastructure projects are construction type jobs where a crew comes in, does the work, and leaves. It has always been a poor way of creating jobs, it just creates a bump in the numbers trying to spur "confidence". Doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in infrastructure--but if you are doing it with the delusion that it will create tons of jobs, I would ask you to provide me a non-partisan study to show that if you really wanted me to believe that.

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Show me the vote count of Congressional Republicans that voted against the $600 billion dollar spending bill.
    It is YOUR claim that congress voted unanimously to pass the bill
    This is a false claim, as no such thing happened; you know this to be true, and yet you stand by the claim.
    -That- means you are lying.
    :dunno:

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I don't mean to be nit picky but technically both the senate and the house of representatives are the congress. It's just easier in layman terms to distinguish the two by calling the lower house the congress and the upper house the senate.
    You'll need to tell Catawba, as he seems to not understand that the the Senate is not the whole of Congress.

  5. #175
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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    It really doesn't create that many jobs. It just maintains jobs we have. Most infrastructure projects are construction type jobs where a crew comes in, does the work, and leaves. It has always been a poor way of creating jobs, it just creates a bump in the numbers trying to spur "confidence". Doesn't mean we shouldn't invest in infrastructure--but if you are doing it with the delusion that it will create tons of jobs, I would ask you to provide me a non-partisan study to show that if you really wanted me to believe that.
    That's not true. Many projects will take years. Also, it's not just construction jobs that would be created. Companies that make material for constriction and stores that sale that material will create jobs. Companies that build machinery will get business also. Then there is the money that gets spend locally. It is a proven method for mass job creation. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. The government invested in build new infrastructure. There were a wide range of projects like getting electrical poles and wiring to rual areas, building parks, Building roads and highways and so on. Study the Great Depression and you will see how long term job growth was stimulated by these government projects. If you have ever taken an economics course in college, you learn how government projects spur job growth in many areas.

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    That's not true. Many projects will take years. Also, it's not just construction jobs that would be created. Companies that make material for constriction and stores that sale that material will create jobs. Companies that build machinery will get business also. Then there is the money that gets spend locally. It is a proven method for mass job creation. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. The government invested in build new infrastructure. There were a wide range of projects like getting electrical poles and wiring to rual areas, building parks, Building roads and highways and so on. Study the Great Depression and you will see how long term job growth was stimulated by these government projects. If you have ever taken an economics course in college, you learn how government projects spur job growth in many areas.
    Your view of the Great Depression "history" is a bit flawed, IMHO.

    What Ended the Great Depression? : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

    The Great Depression - End of the Depression

    When did the Great Depression end
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    That's not true. Many projects will take years. Also, it's not just construction jobs that would be created. Companies that make material for constriction and stores that sale that material will create jobs. Companies that build machinery will get business also. Then there is the money that gets spend locally. It is a proven method for mass job creation. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. The government invested in build new infrastructure. There were a wide range of projects like getting electrical poles and wiring to rual areas, building parks, Building roads and highways and so on. Study the Great Depression and you will see how long term job growth was stimulated by these government projects. If you have ever taken an economics course in college, you learn how government projects spur job growth in many areas.
    I agree invested money creates jobs. That is how I read your post. Someone invests in a project to get a return, as a result that project employs others to created and develop on that project, which all spurs the economy.

    I disagree that government should pick the investments. Last time we did that, a trillion dollars were flushed down the drains.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    That's not true. Many projects will take years. Also, it's not just construction jobs that would be created. Companies that make material for constriction and stores that sale that material will create jobs. Companies that build machinery will get business also. Then there is the money that gets spend locally. It is a proven method for mass job creation. This is how we got out of the Great Depression. The government invested in build new infrastructure. There were a wide range of projects like getting electrical poles and wiring to rual areas, building parks, Building roads and highways and so on. Study the Great Depression and you will see how long term job growth was stimulated by these government projects. If you have ever taken an economics course in college, you learn how government projects spur job growth in many areas.
    The people who benefit from paving projects are the oil companies whose materials are the big cost of asphalt, and the guys who drive the equipment. It isn't like they take people off welfare and give them a backhoe, dump truck, or asphalt roller or let them put down steel or even direct traffic. Perhaps if your idea of infrastructure were a little more modern than hacking your way through the Blue Ridge Mountain during the depression. The jobs created are highly concentrated in existing industry that just add aggregate demand for isolated things like concrete production, steel work, metal fabrication. That is great for those people, but adds no wide-spread job bump and to hold it out as some great hope for people in manufacturing is just cruel and manipulative.

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Can you be more specific? FDR's work programs were a blessing for this country at a time when it was sorely needed.

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    Re: Govt. borrows 46 cents of every dollar it spends

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I agree invested money creates jobs. That is how I read your post. Someone invests in a project to get a return, as a result that project employs others to created and develop on that project, which all spurs the economy.

    I disagree that government should pick the investments. Last time we did that, a trillion dollars were flushed down the drains.
    What, other than a gov't, can "invest" in a roadway, park or public school? I agree that direct gov't "investment" in a private company is wrong (crony capitalism) but that our "public" infrastructure/lands/schools should remain public.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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