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Thread: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    People work their asses off trying to repay off school loans from careers which simply don't pay what was invested in them while at the same time struggling to pay off house bills etc.
    This tells me there is an imbalance in the market. Too many people getting too many degrees in things that don't have a great enough need. If there was a greater need for those degree holders, the market would bear a higher salary for them. In theory, anyway.

    Essentially, I think universities are OVERPRICED for the jobs which people acquire once out of them.
    The ability to leverage the entirety of one's future is how universities get away with such exorbitant fees. Coupled with government subsidizing pretty much ANYONE who wants to go to college, and the idea that literally "everyone should have a degree", we have ended up with a fairly stupid system of higher education. The simple fact of the matter is that not every job requires "skilled" laborers (skilled implying training one can only receive through college). In turn, we dumbed down our regular public education system just so as not to blackball anyone who wants to try at a degree, regardless if they have the intelligence or wherewithall to actually earn one.

    Want to make college cheaper? Get the government out of the game and let the market take over. Make the system competitive. If schools had to compete for students (and their money), the fees could not be so ridiculous.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If the goal is to "increase our nation's cognitive resources" it seems that there's 100 better ways of going about it than voiding debt of low-income graduates.
    i agree. we should educate everyone who wants a college education, and those who can't afford it could go to public universities for a minimal tuition.

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Want to make college cheaper? Get the government out of the game and let the market take over. Make the system competitive. If schools had to compete for students (and their money), the fees could not be so ridiculous.
    Except of course, students would still have to compete for schools. That's what allows them to get away with higher fees. Not the government. Harvard doesn't have to compete with USC because they know that name recognition alone will make people want to enroll there and that by itself will justify increases in tuition fees.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-07-12 at 07:48 PM.
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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Feds: New student loan repayment options set - Yahoo! Finance



    I never went to university. My job could be pretty much be classified as a 'skilled trade'. I'm not worried about being replaced by somebody else. That said, I find this to be a good idea regardless of whether you're a Republican or Democrat. People work their asses off trying to repay off school loans from careers which simply don't pay what was invested in them while at the same time struggling to pay off house bills etc. Essentially, I think universities are OVERPRICED for the jobs which people acquire once out of them. As one musician put it:

    You pay 150K just to earn 50K a year.
    this is so confusing. I was talking about this program when i first got here and alot of people said that this had been in existence forever. I never had it and my neice didnt (1995 grad). I knew I was right. Clinton mentioned this in his DNC speech. This will help my daughter alot.

    Its not partisan its for the kids/
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Maybe they could restructure such that if the graduate isn't able to repay the price of tuition after 20 years of employment, the school provides a refund to the government.
    Thats interesting.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Except of course, students would still have to compete for schools. That's what allows them to get away with higher fees. Not the government. Harvard doesn't have to compete with USC because they know that name recognition alone will make people want to enroll there and that by itself will justify increases in tuition hikes.
    And there is nothing spelled out anywhere (except maybe a children's book) that says every single person on the planet has the right to attend Harvard. I've known poor people who went to Harvard on their merit alone, full ride scholarship, which was essentially funded by rich kids and their parents endowments who agree to pay ridiculous fees and give ridiculous grants so their average kid can get in.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If the goal is to "increase our nation's cognitive resources" it seems that there's 100 better ways of going about it than voiding debt of low-income graduates.
    The point is to allow low income people to attend college not just the middle or upper class. And if you read the law you would know there are still penalties for defaulting for the student.

    Sour grapes.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    If you want your education payed for serve your country, that has worked very well so far.
    Better education open to more people serves our country.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    And there is nothing spelled out anywhere (except maybe a children's book) that says every single person on the planet has the right to attend Harvard.
    Harvard is just an example. The overwhelming majority of universities in this country are simply out of financial reach.

    I've known poor people who went to Harvard on their merit alone, full ride scholarship, which was essentially funded by rich kids and their parents endowments who agree to pay ridiculous fees and give ridiculous grants so their average kid can get in.
    Let me guess: Atlas Shrugged? The case is that there are literally thousands of people who even with great academic scores don't get scholarships. What are they to do?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 12-07-12 at 08:53 PM.
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    Re: Feds: New student loan repayment options set

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Harvard is just an example. The overwhelming majority of universities in this country are simply out of financial reach.
    You were the one who made the assertion that Harvard can command a higher price based on name-brand recognition alone. So let's set them aside for the moment.

    How is it even possible that every university in the system is able to charge such a ridiculous amount for tuition? It's fairly simple. When the government stepped in with money, the schools didn't lower tuition - they raised it, so as to justify the money the government was giving them. Further, it is now possible to leverage your entire future to attend school, and not only that, there are now programs that go on the student's credit and their parents' credit. Up to three people can now be leveraged for one person's education.

    If there is money available, through whatever means, and coupled with the insane idea that college is not only possible for everyone but necessary, the schools have absolutely nothing to keep their tuition in check. They can charge whatever they want because the service is seen as necessary for all people, and there is a bottomless bucket of money from which to pay for it.

    If student loans became either nonexistent or short term loans (paid back by the end of the semester), tuition would have to fall because nobody would be able to afford it. It would come down to affordable levels as a necessary consequence. And we would see roughly the same percentage of people with college degrees as we always have, right around 25% of those who start.

    Let me guess: Atlas Shrugged? The case is that there are literally thousands of people who even with great academic scores don't get scholarships. What are they to do?
    They go to a different school. If there are literally thousands of people who have awesome academic marks, impressive extracurricular activities, and tons of volunteer hours on their applications, they will find another school that will take them full-ride. Ivy league schools are for those with the most potential (and, sadly, for those with the most money... but that money is used to subsidize those with the potential, so a necessary evil it is). There is no reason why someone who was passed over for a Harvard full-ride by the barest margin wouldn't be picked up at UofM. And that is also a good school. It is a false dichotomy to infer that if someone doesn't get into Harvard that the entire system is unfair by default.

    I have enjoyed this debate so far and I wish to continue it. But before we do, I think we should go about setting our definitions so we can be on the same page of argumentation. I have one quick question:

    What does "competition" mean to you?
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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