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Thread: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    I was hoping for state laying groundwork... for universal healthcare when I saw this in the recent thread activity.

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    At Government Motors, it's probably a combination of bureaucrats and unions. How else to explain something as silly as the Volt?
    It wasn't the unions who designed and promoted the Volt.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    I live near Stockton, Ca one of the biggest current bankruptcies. It's a scam, the bankruptcy, to me. Nothing changes for the union contracts, the retirement benefits are protected 100%, and so the only losers are those who leant the city money for physical projects like water lines, sewer lines and " buildings" which can't even be taken in any sense. Why any person would buy a "muni" bond today is beyond me. Stockton granted any employee with 30 days service LIFE TIME health insurance. And they will get to keep it even after the BK. city councils ... Best thing a union boss can buy!
    Agreed. It is appalling how the people who push the debts up to ridiculous amounts never bear the cost of their actions, even in a bankruptcy. Also, people shouldn't be buying munis from these governments.

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Here is a link to the employee benefits plan for the City of Stockton, CA. I don't see where it offers lifetime medical insurance to retirees, any retirees, and certainly not for workers who have only been employed for 30 days. maybe' I've missed it somewhere.

    Or, maybe exaggerated stories are being told about how unions are exacting unrealistic benefits from employers.

    Which could it be?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #45
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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Here is a link to the employee benefits plan for the City of Stockton, CA. I don't see where it offers lifetime medical insurance to retirees, any retirees, and certainly not for workers who have only been employed for 30 days. maybe' I've missed it somewhere.

    Or, maybe exaggerated stories are being told about how unions are exacting unrealistic benefits from employers.

    Which could it be?
    Hey bro, I hate to rain on your parade here, but there is the very reality we face that public-sector unions (of which we-the-people are essentially the "employer") are putting tremendous fiscal burdens on cities across the nation. Several municipalities in this country are going through managed bankruptcy precisely because their public-sector unions are "exacting unrealistic benefits" from the taxpayer, and when the taxpayer money runs out they either beg the federal government (Obama's stimulus) or force the state gvmt to step in and save them.

    Please read what I wrote, let it sink in, and try again with an informed, nuanced position that sits somewhat reasonably within the confines of reality.

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    Hey bro, I hate to rain on your parade here, but there is the very reality we face that public-sector unions (of which we-the-people are essentially the "employer") are putting tremendous fiscal burdens on cities across the nation. Several municipalities in this country are going through managed bankruptcy precisely because their public-sector unions are "exacting unrealistic benefits" from the taxpayer, and when the taxpayer money runs out they either beg the federal government (Obama's stimulus) or force the state gvmt to step in and save them.

    Please read what I wrote, let it sink in, and try again with an informed, nuanced position that sits somewhat reasonably within the confines of reality.
    The claim was:

    Stockton granted any employee with 30 days service LIFE TIME health insurance. And they will get to keep it even after the BK. city councils ... Best thing a union boss can buy!
    which doesn't seem to be correct.

    Now, the claim is more general, that municipalities are in financial trouble because "because their public-sector unions are "exacting unrealistic benefits" from the taxpayer," with no specifics to back up the conclusion at all.

    If those unrealistic benefits don't include "lifetime health benefits", as claimed originally, just what do they include?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    It wasn't the unions who designed and promoted the Volt.
    Not directly, but their elected representatives sure did.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Not directly, but their elected representatives sure did.
    In third world countries government union leaders have more power than the politicians because they can shut down the country any time they want. Presidents just come and go. The Bureaucracy continues and grows, more rules and regulations continue to be made, and the people have little control over what's happening, or how their money will be spent.

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    Re: State Laying Groundwork for Managed Bankruptcy in Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    In third world countries government union leaders have more power than the politicians because they can shut down the country any time they want. Presidents just come and go. The Bureaucracy continues and grows, more rules and regulations continue to be made, and the people have little control over what's happening, or how their money will be spent.
    Agreed. The reason that centralized planning in economics never works (e.g., Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Venezuela) is that the central powers are inherently much too conservative, and they focus their attention on preserving yesterday's jobs rather than producing tomorrow's products. They then quickly lose their export market, and start falling behind the rest of the world. Maybe you remember the Yugo and the East German Trabant (which got about the same oil mileage as it did gas mileage, both very poor). However constant failure of the socialist ideal in practice hasn't seemed to reduce the enthusiasm for it, except perhaps among those who have actually experienced it.
    "We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
    - Abraham Lincoln

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