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Thread: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

  1. #111
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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    You have the wording a little messed up.


    Article 1, section 8.
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    The general welfare does not refer to the welfare of the people, its refering to the welfare of the United States. The federal government is charged with protecting the rights of the citizens, as well and defence against enemies, both foreign and domestic. It doesnt mean they need to buy us groceries. Why do you think we even have government at a state level, if the fed is supposed to do everything? State government is not merly a sub government to the federal government. Its a whole different level of government, with different roles and responsibilities. Politicians are giving themselves to much power. The checks and balances that were put in place at the birth of our country are breaking down.
    General Welfare of the US means it's citizens. State governments can enact and enforce laws if those laws do not violate the constitution or Federal Laws. That makes state governments sub governments under the Federal government. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government can't run social programs that provide food for the poor. Our federal government does a lot of things under the general welfare clasue that benefits US citizens, like the FDA and CDC. There are many things that need to be attended to that government is best at providing for it's people. You can't count on the free market to clean up the environment or combate disease outbreaks and so forth. Like it or not, we need the federal government to provide services for us.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    While I agree on corporate welfare being a problem, I still think you underestimate what's going on in social welfare programs. And it's not only welfare programs. I run a small business in Ohio and the regular abuse I see in the workers comp system is mind boggling. I often tell people that with what I've learned about playing the system I could be the ultimate nightmare employee. In Ohio if you want some paid time off go to work tomorrow and say "ow, I hurt my shoulder". I could turn that simple statement into months of paid time off and lots of free drugs. And 2 years from now I'll "hurt" that same shoulder again(just in time for walleye season) after all I do have a history of it and it's obviously the employers fault.

    Again it's not abuse it's an industry. I have a couple of employees that can get on their cell phones and within minutes tell you which little store down in the inner city is offering the best return on food stamps. Usually around 60 cents on the dollar. The company that gets the most from those food stamps appears to be Anhueser Busch. I've seen printed handouts telling you how to get your child diagnosed with ADD so you can get more money and free drugs. Heck one of my employees divorced his wife for the sole purpose of playing the system. He uses his mothers address, he and the wife "agreed" on very low child support payments making her and the kids eligible for basically a free ride, rent voucher, utility assistance, healthcare, daycare, etc. He still lives there, nothing has changed other than govt money coming in. And of course his take is "everyone else is doing it".

    Here's a thought lets clean up both corporate and social welfare abuse. Instead of hiring 16000 IRS agents we should have hired 16000 fraud investigators.
    Well, each state is different. I don't know how Ohio is set up when it comes to welfare, but My daughter sure didn't get a free ride. She has an ADHD child and doesn't get any extra money for it. She also has to pay her own rent and utilities. She has looked into getting help to pay the bills when she was sick, there was no program that could or would help her. All she got was food stamps and medicaid for the kids. She ended up having to come live with me and my husband. She gets no free medical help, so when she needs to see a doctor she has to wait in the waiting room of the free clinic all day and there is no gauranty she will be seen. I think you have an unrealistic view of how the poor and needy really live. Those who play the system run the risk of getting locked up for welfare fraud.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    General Welfare of the US means it's citizens. State governments can enact and enforce laws if those laws do not violate the constitution or Federal Laws. That makes state governments sub governments under the Federal government. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government can't run social programs that provide food for the poor. Our federal government does a lot of things under the general welfare clasue that benefits US citizens, like the FDA and CDC. There are many things that need to be attended to that government is best at providing for it's people. You can't count on the free market to clean up the environment or combate disease outbreaks and so forth. Like it or not, we need the federal government to provide services for us.
    Ugg, you obviously didn’t read my post. I haven’t said we need to rely on the free market, in fact i haven’t even mentioned free market. I said this is a job for local and state government. Yes the gov does a lot under the guise of "general welfare", but that doesn’t make it right. They do a lot of things that aren’t right. Local government is not a sub government to the fed. That where most people go wrong these days. If that were true, we would pay state taxes, we would pay everything to the fed and they would dole it out from there like they do all their other organizations. The FDA and CDC are perfect examples of everything i have said.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    General Welfare of the US means it's citizens. State governments can enact and enforce laws if those laws do not violate the constitution or Federal Laws. That makes state governments sub governments under the Federal government. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government can't run social programs that provide food for the poor. Our federal government does a lot of things under the general welfare clasue that benefits US citizens, like the FDA and CDC. There are many things that need to be attended to that government is best at providing for it's people. You can't count on the free market to clean up the environment or combate disease outbreaks and so forth. Like it or not, we need the federal government to provide services for us.
    Under the U.S. Constitution, both the national and state governments are granted certain exclusive powers and share other powers.
    The state is not subservient to the federal government.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The state is not subservient to the federal government.
    Yes they are.

    We fought a war over it, and we (the south) lost. The pro subservient folk won.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Yes they are.

    We fought a war over it, and we (the south) lost. The pro subservient folk won.
    That was a constitutional amendment, which is ratified by the states.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Dpetty View Post
    Ugg, you obviously didn’t read my post. I haven’t said we need to rely on the free market, in fact i haven’t even mentioned free market. I said this is a job for local and state government. Yes the gov does a lot under the guise of "general welfare", but that doesn’t make it right. They do a lot of things that aren’t right. Local government is not a sub government to the fed. That where most people go wrong these days. If that were true, we would pay state taxes, we would pay everything to the fed and they would dole it out from there like they do all their other organizations. The FDA and CDC are perfect examples of everything i have said.
    We simply have different views, there is no right or wrong about it. This is why freedom of speech is so important. I think government is best at dealing with charities. We elect our officials to manage things, which gives us a say in how things are run.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Hairytic View Post
    General Welfare of the US means it's citizens. State governments can enact and enforce laws if those laws do not violate the constitution or Federal Laws. That makes state governments sub governments under the Federal government. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government can't run social programs that provide food for the poor. Our federal government does a lot of things under the general welfare clasue that benefits US citizens, like the FDA and CDC. There are many things that need to be attended to that government is best at providing for it's people. You can't count on the free market to clean up the environment or combate disease outbreaks and so forth. Like it or not, we need the federal government to provide services for us.
    See bolded part - no, there isn't, as long as the states agree to those programs. We don't need the feds to provide any but the services enumerated to the fed's control by the Constitution. They can all be provided by the states as they wish. The feds should only act as a coordinator in this scenerio.

    But we've screwed that system and gone way extra-constitutional. So with the system the way it is, the way we've allowed it to morph, we have become dependent upon federal services. Setting up a vicious cycle.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapunzel52 View Post
    OK...so we've gone nowhere, which is not growth. What happened to those people who left the roles In November that upped the rate a month ago??? Still doesn't change the fact that 350,000 left the work force in one months time.
    I'm asking this as a question, not as anything snarky.

    Do those number (the 350,000) include retirees?

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    Re: U.S. Adds 146,000 Jobs; Jobless Rate Falls to 7.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    I'm asking this as a question, not as anything snarky.

    Do those number (the 350,000) include retirees?
    I think that is measured in a different table within the report, not sure though....But certainly not anywhere near enough retirees in that if it is so, to effect the bad news....I would think that those giving up to get disability is a more likely reason.

    [The only reason that the unemployment rate fell was because more people dropped out of the labor market than actually found jobs. The labor force declined by 350,000 and the labor force participation rate, a measure of potential workers, declined to 63.6, the same level as reported in September. The recovery is well underway, yet potential workers continue to remain on the sidelines and out of the labor market. One reason is that approximately 1.5 million more potential workers are on the disability rolls now as compared to 2007. It is doubtful that many of them will ever return to the labor force, lowering future economic growth.
    The 146,000 new jobs being created are positive, but the good news is tempered by downward revisions to previous months of 45,000. The economy needs to produce 125,000 new jobs to keep up with population growth. 146,000 jobs are not enough to reduce the unemployment rate unless people leave the labor force. The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta’s job calculator estimates it would take five years to reach full employment given the current rate of job creation. This is unacceptable.

    Unemployment Rate Drop in November Employment Report Due to Workers Leaving Labor Force
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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