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Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

sharon said:
He accused me of being a holocaust denier.. and that is completelyunacceptable.
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Your positions bring the question up and he did not state it as a fact, more as a question.

"You probably believe..."

Much like someone saying to a conservative "You probably believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman".

Of course, if the conservative did not take that position, they could reply: "no, that's not my position". Or, alternatively, they could just call the poster a "GD fool" (but that would be against the rules).
 
sharon said:
The driving force behind the Arab Spring in Egypt was the economy.. and many in the crowd are teens as young as 15.

There are no "rape" gangs.. just some jostling and mashing.
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The driving force was progressive activism exploiting an economy impacted by American progressives demanding that American burn food in their cars for fuel. Had all that corn been on the market as food the Egyptians might never have been swayed a they were.

I have to admit that when I was 15 I was pretty shy but under a cloak of religious and government protection I might have been persuaded to do a little groping of innocent girls ion those crowds. After a little of that it's hard to keep a 15 year old from going all the way if he knows there is no consequences.

You would have to be the biggest fool on this forum to claim that women are treated with respect in these crowds and that there isn't a problem with sexual assaults all over the Arab world.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
In the courtroom they call that heresay. FAIL
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Actually the whole article is based on heresay is it not? In the begining it says "...say activists.". Who are these "activitsts" and what is their evidence that President Morsi is behind it? The whole thing stinks of propaganda to me, but that is my opinion.

It would be like some foreign reporter coming to America and talking to a right-wing nutjob that says President Obama is a secret Muslim who is plotting to take over the U.S. and then taking that as fact.
 
ecofarm said:
Your positions bring the question up and he did not state it as a fact, more as a question.

"You probably believe..."

Much like someone saying to a conservative "You probably believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman".

Of course, if the conservative did not take that position, they could reply: "no, that's not my position". Or, alternatively, they could just call the poster a "GD fool" (but that would be against the rules).
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Not only was he insulting me but he was also off topic.. I have NEVER been a Holocaust denier..
 
Moderator's Warning:
The baiting and the personal comments directed at each other can end now thanks. Focus on the topic only and not each other please.
 
ecofarm said:
Your positions bring the question up and he did not state it as a fact, more as a question.

"You probably believe..."

Much like someone saying to a conservative "You probably believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman".

Of course, if the conservative did not take that position, they could reply: "no, that's not my position". Or, alternatively, they could just call the poster a "GD fool" (but that would be against the rules).
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It's unacceptable just as if I were to say to another poster "You probably think it's ok to **** a 4 year old". It's offensive and unacceptable. Just because I put in "You probably believe...." doesn't make it any less offensive.
 
Iron River said:
The driving force was progressive activism exploiting an economy impacted by American progressives demanding that American burn food in their cars for fuel. Had all that corn been on the market as food the Egyptians might never have been swayed a they were.

I have to admit that when I was 15 I was pretty shy but under a cloak of religious and government protection I might have been persuaded to do a little groping of innocent girls ion those crowds. After a little of that it's hard to keep a 15 year old from going all the way if he knows there is no consequences.

You would have to be the biggest fool on this forum to claim that women are treated with respect in these crowds and that there isn't a problem with sexual assaults all over the Arab world.
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Most of the Arab world has a low crime rate and little HIV...

Crimes like rape and pedophelia are severely punished.. and rapidly..
 
Serenity said:
Moderator's Warning:
The baiting and the personal comments directed at each other can end now thanks. Focus on the topic only and not each other please.
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Thank you..
 
sharon said:
He accused me of being a holocaust denier.. and that is completelyunacceptable.
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Why is it unacceptable, there are alot of Holocaust deniers out there and you have shown an ability to deny facts. Hell I have a wack job lib sister in law that Denys the Tienanmen Square massacre happened.People can deny anything.
 
sharon said:
Most of the Arab world has a low crime rate and little HIV...

Crimes like rape and pedophelia are severely punished.. and rapidly..
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Yep, those women get whipped good for enticing sexual battery and without so much as a mock trial.
 
TheNextEra said:
Actually the whole article is based on heresay is it not? In the begining it says "...say activists.". Who are these "activitsts" and what is their evidence that President Morsi is behind it? The whole thing stinks of propaganda to me, but that is my opinion.

It would be like some foreign reporter coming to America and talking to a right-wing nutjob that says President Obama is a secret Muslim who is plotting to take over the U.S. and then taking that as fact.
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The article quotes a woman who is a well respected source.

This is still happening now,” Magda Adly, director of the Nadeem Center for Human Rights, told The Times of London. “I believe thugs are being paid money to do this ... the Muslim Brotherhood have the same political approaches as Mubarak.”

Read more: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women | Fox News
 
sawyerloggingon said:
The article quotes a woman who is a well respected source.

This is still happening now,” Magda Adly, director of the Nadeem Center for Human Rights, told The Times of London. “I believe thugs are being paid money to do this ... the Muslim Brotherhood have the same political approaches as Mubarak.”

Read more: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women | Fox News
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The key word there though is "I believe....." from her. Just saying, I am highly suspect is all given no evidence presented that the president is actually behind it. I don't see enough evidence either to believe her or discredit her. I would like to see what the actual evidence of president Morsi's role in this is and not just heresay.
 
TheNextEra said:
The key word there though is "I believe....." from her. Just saying, I am highly suspect is all given no evidence presented that the president is actually behind it. I don't see enough evidence either to believe her or discredit her. I would like to see what the actual evidence of president Morsi's role in this is and not just heresay.
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What would qualify as evidence for you? Videos of women being gang raped? Sperm samples from a woman showing 50 donors? What???? AND it is not like this has not happened before in this part of the world you know. The very same people who were celebrating then are the ones against the protesters now. Wake up and smell the coffee.


"Lara Logan, CBS Reporter and Warzone 'It Girl,' Raped Repeatedly Amid Egypt Celebration"
 
sawyerloggingon said:
What would qualify as evidence for you? Videos of women being gang raped? Sperm samples from a woman showing 50 donors? What???? AND it is not like this has not happened before in this part of the world you know. The very same people who were celebrating then are the ones against the protesters now. Wake up and smell the coffee.


"Lara Logan, CBS Reporter and Warzone 'It Girl,' Raped Repeatedly Amid Egypt Celebration"
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Capturing and interrogating one of the attackers. Just because a rape happens here in Nevada, I don't go blaming the governor. Right now the evidence we have is that there are rapists doing this. That's all the real "facts" we have. The rest is heresay and accusations.

My question to you is, do you believe everything someone says about someone you don't like?
 
sawyerloggingon said:
One private phone call compared to public statement after public statement when obama wanted Mubarak out, see the difference?
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Ohhh of course its not good enough for you.. :roll:
 
sharon said:
The Saudis aren't scared poopless at all.

in 2009-2010 and again this year Saudi scholars and clerics have come to the conclusion that because literacy was so terrible people began to think that tribal customs were Sharia law... That has opened the door on redefining Khulwas and ikhtilat.. so reforms are moving along rapidly.

Its allows women to work with men, attend co-ed universities with their faces and hair uncovered.. they will have the vote next year..In Jeddah women wear pastel Abayas .. in Riyadh they decorate the dark ones with embroidery.. Women can now work as waitresses .. others are studying to be doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.

There are female film makers...

The Religious Police have been sharply reigned in and reduced in numbers .. and the new top man is a liberal who supports more freedom for women.

so things are changing at an increasing rate.
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I was not referring to their internal social reformation.
I was referring to the increasingly tenuous position of the house of Saud and SA's influence and position within the arab world.
Egypt was the center of arab influence for a couple thousand years.
For a short time, SA overtook them due to their wealth, wahabbi revivalism coupled with their control of mecca, and Nassar's death followed by Sadat's "betrayal" of signing a peace treaty with Israel.

The house of Saud while showering its people with largesse, can ill afford the whiffs of democracy in SA that are sweeping the rest of the arab world.
The thousands of priveledged princes and sheiks who arrogantly lord it over the common people, the enormous number of foreign workers required to support the regime and the basic economic structures makes the entire regime vulnerable.

It has been interesting to observe how low a profile they are trying to maintain thru all of this political turmoil in their brother muslim lands.
 
Wiseone said:
What send the 101st ABN into Egypt? **** that.
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You asked what he "could" have done. Since the President never takes an option off the table, then it must have been an option.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
You asked what he "could" have done. Since the President never takes an option off the table, then it must have been an option.
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And that would have been an option you would have supported? I think the question most are asking of those critical of Obama is what he could have done to satisfy the right in this situation.
 
Jonsa said:
I was not referring to their internal social reformation.
I was referring to the increasingly tenuous position of the house of Saud and SA's influence and position within the arab world.
Egypt was the center of arab influence for a couple thousand years.
For a short time, SA overtook them due to their wealth, wahabbi revivalism coupled with their control of mecca, and Nassar's death followed by Sadat's "betrayal" of signing a peace treaty with Israel.

The house of Saud while showering its people with largesse, can ill afford the whiffs of democracy in SA that are sweeping the rest of the arab world.
The thousands of priveledged princes and sheiks who arrogantly lord it over the common people, the enormous number of foreign workers required to support the regime and the basic economic structures makes the entire regime vulnerable.

It has been interesting to observe how low a profile they are trying to maintain thru all of this political turmoil in their brother muslim lands.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand Saudi Arabia or the Al Saud very well.. There commitment is to the economic and social future of the people.. and they are dead serious about that.

I think they will slowly evolve into a constitutional monarchy..

The reason that they have come this far in 70 years is because they were NOT subject to the British model like Iraq and Iraq or Egypt..

Wahhabi is not a sect of Islam.. and Wahhab didn't write or teach about women's issues or their place in society.. They are Sunni in the midst of a Sunni revival... I think it is an enlightened revival.
 
sharon said:
I don't think you understand Saudi Arabia or the Al Saud very well.. There commitment is to the economic and social future of the people.. and they are dead serious about that.

I think they will slowly evolve into a constitutional monarchy..

The reason that they have come this far in 70 years is because they were NOT subject to the British model like Iraq and Iraq or Egypt..

Wahhabi is not a sect of Islam.. and Wahhab didn't write or teach about women's issues or their place in society.. They are Sunni in the midst of a Sunni revival... I think it is an enlightened revival.
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Sorry if I have a different perspective.

I did not suggest that the House of Saud is not dead serious. their "commitment" is completely in keeping with the principles of Islam. Their "practice" is completely in keeping with a totalitarian regime.

To transition to a constitutional monarchy will require some serious enlightenment on the part of both the reigning King AND the Ulema. Sorry if I don't see that as a plausible path.

Wahabbism is not a sect per se, it is a school of Islamic interpretation, an ultra orthodox one that is attempting to spread its interpretation throughout the Muslim world fueled by Saudi wealth. They have a two pronged strategy, building and staffing madrassa's all over the ummah and thru opportunistic militancy.

Sorry if I don't see the revival as anything more than some cosmetic nods to 21st century norms.
 
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