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Thread: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    The Saudis aren't scared poopless at all.

    in 2009-2010 and again this year Saudi scholars and clerics have come to the conclusion that because literacy was so terrible people began to think that tribal customs were Sharia law... That has opened the door on redefining Khulwas and ikhtilat.. so reforms are moving along rapidly.

    Its allows women to work with men, attend co-ed universities with their faces and hair uncovered.. they will have the vote next year..In Jeddah women wear pastel Abayas .. in Riyadh they decorate the dark ones with embroidery.. Women can now work as waitresses .. others are studying to be doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.

    There are female film makers...

    The Religious Police have been sharply reigned in and reduced in numbers .. and the new top man is a liberal who supports more freedom for women.

    so things are changing at an increasing rate.
    I was not referring to their internal social reformation.
    I was referring to the increasingly tenuous position of the house of Saud and SA's influence and position within the arab world.
    Egypt was the center of arab influence for a couple thousand years.
    For a short time, SA overtook them due to their wealth, wahabbi revivalism coupled with their control of mecca, and Nassar's death followed by Sadat's "betrayal" of signing a peace treaty with Israel.

    The house of Saud while showering its people with largesse, can ill afford the whiffs of democracy in SA that are sweeping the rest of the arab world.
    The thousands of priveledged princes and sheiks who arrogantly lord it over the common people, the enormous number of foreign workers required to support the regime and the basic economic structures makes the entire regime vulnerable.

    It has been interesting to observe how low a profile they are trying to maintain thru all of this political turmoil in their brother muslim lands.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    What send the 101st ABN into Egypt? **** that.
    You asked what he "could" have done. Since the President never takes an option off the table, then it must have been an option.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You asked what he "could" have done. Since the President never takes an option off the table, then it must have been an option.
    And that would have been an option you would have supported? I think the question most are asking of those critical of Obama is what he could have done to satisfy the right in this situation.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    I was not referring to their internal social reformation.
    I was referring to the increasingly tenuous position of the house of Saud and SA's influence and position within the arab world.
    Egypt was the center of arab influence for a couple thousand years.
    For a short time, SA overtook them due to their wealth, wahabbi revivalism coupled with their control of mecca, and Nassar's death followed by Sadat's "betrayal" of signing a peace treaty with Israel.

    The house of Saud while showering its people with largesse, can ill afford the whiffs of democracy in SA that are sweeping the rest of the arab world.
    The thousands of priveledged princes and sheiks who arrogantly lord it over the common people, the enormous number of foreign workers required to support the regime and the basic economic structures makes the entire regime vulnerable.

    It has been interesting to observe how low a profile they are trying to maintain thru all of this political turmoil in their brother muslim lands.
    I don't think you understand Saudi Arabia or the Al Saud very well.. There commitment is to the economic and social future of the people.. and they are dead serious about that.

    I think they will slowly evolve into a constitutional monarchy..

    The reason that they have come this far in 70 years is because they were NOT subject to the British model like Iraq and Iraq or Egypt..

    Wahhabi is not a sect of Islam.. and Wahhab didn't write or teach about women's issues or their place in society.. They are Sunni in the midst of a Sunni revival... I think it is an enlightened revival.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    I don't think you understand Saudi Arabia or the Al Saud very well.. There commitment is to the economic and social future of the people.. and they are dead serious about that.

    I think they will slowly evolve into a constitutional monarchy..

    The reason that they have come this far in 70 years is because they were NOT subject to the British model like Iraq and Iraq or Egypt..

    Wahhabi is not a sect of Islam.. and Wahhab didn't write or teach about women's issues or their place in society.. They are Sunni in the midst of a Sunni revival... I think it is an enlightened revival.
    Sorry if I have a different perspective.

    I did not suggest that the House of Saud is not dead serious. their "commitment" is completely in keeping with the principles of Islam. Their "practice" is completely in keeping with a totalitarian regime.

    To transition to a constitutional monarchy will require some serious enlightenment on the part of both the reigning King AND the Ulema. Sorry if I don't see that as a plausible path.

    Wahabbism is not a sect per se, it is a school of Islamic interpretation, an ultra orthodox one that is attempting to spread its interpretation throughout the Muslim world fueled by Saudi wealth. They have a two pronged strategy, building and staffing madrassa's all over the ummah and thru opportunistic militancy.

    Sorry if I don't see the revival as anything more than some cosmetic nods to 21st century norms.
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonsa View Post
    Sorry if I have a different perspective.

    I did not suggest that the House of Saud is not dead serious. their "commitment" is completely in keeping with the principles of Islam. Their "practice" is completely in keeping with a totalitarian regime.

    To transition to a constitutional monarchy will require some serious enlightenment on the part of both the reigning King AND the Ulema. Sorry if I don't see that as a plausible path.

    Wahabbism is not a sect per se, it is a school of Islamic interpretation, an ultra orthodox one that is attempting to spread its interpretation throughout the Muslim world fueled by Saudi wealth. They have a two pronged strategy, building and staffing madrassa's all over the ummah and thru opportunistic militancy.

    Sorry if I don't see the revival as anything more than some cosmetic nods to 21st century norms.
    Actually I have known three kings and several of the Sudeiri Seven for well over 60 years.. and I have watched there half dozen 5 year plans.

    When King Abdullah passes.. I also know CP Salman.. They are a skilled and thoughtful bunch.. Well educated with decades of experience in good governance.. Not totalitarian at all.

    They NEVER jam change on the people.. They plant the seeds and wait for a concensus.. as they have done since the introduction of the radio and telephone.

    Do you know any real Wahhabis in Arabia?

    Sunni Islam is going thru cautious but important reforms... that are possible because of education in Arabia.. KSA is sending 250,000 young Saudis of both sexes for graduate work in Law, Finance, Engineering, Medicine etc... and has decreed that the educational system must move away from rote learning to critical thinking.

    They do have the support of the Ulema... That is the whole POINT....

    The last time I was in Arabia, I was followed around by several journalists, a film crew, translator and drivers.

    A young woman attached herself to me .. and she was an unveiled journalist with no headscarf.... divorced with four children..

    We walked together, talked together.. ate with the men.. discussed everything imaginable.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And that would have been an option you would have supported? I think the question most are asking of those critical of Obama is what he could have done to satisfy the right in this situation.
    No, I would have preferred that he go back to Cairo and make another speech.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Pfffff! "Muslim Brotherhood!" Such a cohesive sounding concept and yet they are involved in crimes and the relationship between members of "brotherhood" seems as far as between freaking planets. I thought that was an invented/imagined term until right about now.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    Pfffff! "Muslim Brotherhood!" Such a cohesive sounding concept and yet they are involved in crimes and the relationship between members of "brotherhood" seems as far as between freaking planets. I thought that was an invented/imagined term until right about now.
    You still don't know anything about the Muslim Brotherhood. They have come a long, long way since Sayeed Qubt who never bothered to study Islam hated all things of the West.

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    Re: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

    Quote Originally Posted by sharon View Post
    Actually I have known three kings and several of the Sudeiri Seven for well over 60 years.. and I have watched there half dozen 5 year plans.

    When King Abdullah passes.. I also know CP Salman.. They are a skilled and thoughtful bunch.. Well educated with decades of experience in good governance.. Not totalitarian at all.

    They NEVER jam change on the people.. They plant the seeds and wait for a concensus.. as they have done since the introduction of the radio and telephone.

    Do you know any real Wahhabis in Arabia?

    Sunni Islam is going thru cautious but important reforms... that are possible because of education in Arabia.. KSA is sending 250,000 young Saudis of both sexes for graduate work in Law, Finance, Engineering, Medicine etc... and has decreed that the educational system must move away from rote learning to critical thinking.

    They do have the support of the Ulema... That is the whole POINT....

    The last time I was in Arabia, I was followed around by several journalists, a film crew, translator and drivers.

    A young woman attached herself to me .. and she was an unveiled journalist with no headscarf.... divorced with four children..

    We walked together, talked together.. ate with the men.. discussed everything imaginable.
    I shall defer to your intimate knowledge of the players, and reserve judgement of how much support the Ulema will provide to proposed social/religious changes over the next few years.

    About that woman without a head scarf, was that a permanent situation with her or just when she was "attached" to you? I presume you were in a major urban area?
    My Karma ran over your Dogma.

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