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Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

Jonsa said:
Sorry if I have a different perspective.

I did not suggest that the House of Saud is not dead serious. their "commitment" is completely in keeping with the principles of Islam. Their "practice" is completely in keeping with a totalitarian regime.

To transition to a constitutional monarchy will require some serious enlightenment on the part of both the reigning King AND the Ulema. Sorry if I don't see that as a plausible path.

Wahabbism is not a sect per se, it is a school of Islamic interpretation, an ultra orthodox one that is attempting to spread its interpretation throughout the Muslim world fueled by Saudi wealth. They have a two pronged strategy, building and staffing madrassa's all over the ummah and thru opportunistic militancy.

Sorry if I don't see the revival as anything more than some cosmetic nods to 21st century norms.
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Actually I have known three kings and several of the Sudeiri Seven for well over 60 years.. and I have watched there half dozen 5 year plans.

When King Abdullah passes.. I also know CP Salman.. They are a skilled and thoughtful bunch.. Well educated with decades of experience in good governance.. Not totalitarian at all.

They NEVER jam change on the people.. They plant the seeds and wait for a concensus.. as they have done since the introduction of the radio and telephone.

Do you know any real Wahhabis in Arabia?

Sunni Islam is going thru cautious but important reforms... that are possible because of education in Arabia.. KSA is sending 250,000 young Saudis of both sexes for graduate work in Law, Finance, Engineering, Medicine etc... and has decreed that the educational system must move away from rote learning to critical thinking.

They do have the support of the Ulema... That is the whole POINT....

The last time I was in Arabia, I was followed around by several journalists, a film crew, translator and drivers.

A young woman attached herself to me .. and she was an unveiled journalist with no headscarf.... divorced with four children..

We walked together, talked together.. ate with the men.. discussed everything imaginable.
 
TheNextEra said:
And that would have been an option you would have supported? I think the question most are asking of those critical of Obama is what he could have done to satisfy the right in this situation.
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No, I would have preferred that he go back to Cairo and make another speech.
 
Pfffff! "Muslim Brotherhood!" Such a cohesive sounding concept and yet they are involved in crimes and the relationship between members of "brotherhood" seems as far as between freaking planets. I thought that was an invented/imagined term until right about now.
 
DDD said:
Pfffff! "Muslim Brotherhood!" Such a cohesive sounding concept and yet they are involved in crimes and the relationship between members of "brotherhood" seems as far as between freaking planets. I thought that was an invented/imagined term until right about now.
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You still don't know anything about the Muslim Brotherhood. They have come a long, long way since Sayeed Qubt who never bothered to study Islam hated all things of the West.
 
sharon said:
Actually I have known three kings and several of the Sudeiri Seven for well over 60 years.. and I have watched there half dozen 5 year plans.

When King Abdullah passes.. I also know CP Salman.. They are a skilled and thoughtful bunch.. Well educated with decades of experience in good governance.. Not totalitarian at all.

They NEVER jam change on the people.. They plant the seeds and wait for a concensus.. as they have done since the introduction of the radio and telephone.

Do you know any real Wahhabis in Arabia?

Sunni Islam is going thru cautious but important reforms... that are possible because of education in Arabia.. KSA is sending 250,000 young Saudis of both sexes for graduate work in Law, Finance, Engineering, Medicine etc... and has decreed that the educational system must move away from rote learning to critical thinking.

They do have the support of the Ulema... That is the whole POINT....

The last time I was in Arabia, I was followed around by several journalists, a film crew, translator and drivers.

A young woman attached herself to me .. and she was an unveiled journalist with no headscarf.... divorced with four children..

We walked together, talked together.. ate with the men.. discussed everything imaginable.
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I shall defer to your intimate knowledge of the players, and reserve judgement of how much support the Ulema will provide to proposed social/religious changes over the next few years.

About that woman without a head scarf, was that a permanent situation with her or just when she was "attached" to you? I presume you were in a major urban area?
 
sharon said:
You still don't know anything about the Muslim Brotherhood. They have come a long, long way since Sayeed Qubt who never bothered to study Islam hated all things of the West.
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This is what I know about the Muslim Brotherhood since you brought it up. They are selfish, cowards, incredibly egoistical, and greedy!

Before liberation Dardania had been occupied for several decades or more. During this time the occupation discriminated, looted, raped, burned, and killed many as they always did. Even during these times the Mosque leaders were asking us to join the "Muslim Brotherhood" and give lives so as to free Palestine! We were in a lot of trouble and yet some took the issue into consideration (i.e., fight and risk one's life for their cause).

When we wanted to free ourselves from the occupation though and help was wanted from all around, your "Muslim Brotherhood" was nowhere to be found! So it is alright for Albanians to fight for outside causes but not in reverse huh?! What's even worse they were influencing the Mosque leaders to persuade the population to move away from NATO!!! Whom was going to help us at that time then?! Ok your "Muslim Brotherhood" chickened out why attempt to influence from real help such as NATO!?

Today chickens do not even know how to sign apparently, for most of Muslim Brotherhood countries still have not recognized our fought with friends and won independence! On the other hand Iraq is openly against our independence and supports the criminals up north instead of us!

So there is no "Muslim Brotherhood" in a cohesive each help each other mutual sense. It is there to interfere with one's existential matters at best for me!
 
Jonsa said:
I shall defer to your intimate knowledge of the players, and reserve judgement of how much support the Ulema will provide to proposed social/religious changes over the next few years.

About that woman without a head scarf, was that a permanent situation with her or just when she was "attached" to you? I presume you were in a major urban area?
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Yes.. she lived and worked in Jeddah.. I think she attached herself to me becuase I am older and remember what it was like 6 decades ago..

You see women more frequently with hair showing, faces showing.. I have never worn an Abaya.. and thank God, Prince Salman asked me not to wear one.. I would trip and break my neck.

KSA is changing.. and there's a real vitality.. sort of an enthusiasm in the air... and they are doing remarkable things.. Huge mining operations, solar installations, half a million jobs in manufacturing since 2007.. Recharge dams, new oilfields, huge fish and shrimp farms.... more desal and power plants.. 500,000 new housing units..... now they have a joint venture with University of Arizona to teach intensive agriculture in Saudi Arabia and the 2 million acres they are farming in Sudan.

They have the worlds largest dairy farm .. plus they are doing some cool things culturally like book fairs, cultural center theaters, historic preservation, Heritage sites, an about 100 sites dedicated to the preservation of wildlife.
 
I put the 'reports' of MB organized rapes along side the 'reports' of crucifixions reported earlier.

I see the TV reports showing an amazingly restrained give and take in Egypt very similar to the Chicago riots in '68. Compared to the rather impressive suppression of the Arab unrest in our dear ally Qatar this doesn't seem like some massive E-Vile Gubmint suppression and rape situation.

Time will tell what balance of power is reached in Egypt, that the opposition taking to the streets hasn't been crucified in kilometer long ribbons leading to the canal...

Might be a good sign. :peace
 
DDD said:
This is what I know about the Muslim Brotherhood since you brought it up. They are selfish, cowards, incredibly egoistical, and greedy!

Before liberation Dardania had been occupied for several decades or more. During this time the occupation discriminated, looted, raped, burned, and killed many as they always did. Even during these times the Mosque leaders were asking us to join the "Muslim Brotherhood" and give lives so as to free Palestine! We were in a lot of trouble and yet some took the issue into consideration (i.e., fight and risk one's life for their cause).

When we wanted to free ourselves from the occupation though and help was wanted from all around, your "Muslim Brotherhood" was nowhere to be found! So it is alright for Albanians to fight for outside causes but not in reverse huh?! What's even worse they were influencing the Mosque leaders to persuade the population to move away from NATO!!! Whom was going to help us at that time then?! Ok your "Muslim Brotherhood" chickened out why attempt to influence from real help such as NATO!?

Today chickens do not even know how to sign apparently, for most of Muslim Brotherhood countries still have not recognized our fought with friends and won independence! On the other hand Iraq is openly against our independence and supports the criminals up north instead of us!

So there is no "Muslim Brotherhood" in a cohesive each help each other mutual sense. It is there to interfere with one's existential matters at best for me!
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What year was that?
 
notquiteright said:
I put the 'reports' of MB organized rapes along side the 'reports' of crucifixions reported earlier.

I see the TV reports showing an amazingly restrained give and take in Egypt very similar to the Chicago riots in '68. Compared to the rather impressive suppression of the Arab unrest in our dear ally Qatar this doesn't seem like some massive E-Vile Gubmint suppression and rape situation.

Time will tell what balance of power is reached in Egypt, that the opposition taking to the streets hasn't been crucified in kilometer long ribbons leading to the canal...

Might be a good sign. :peace
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The woman who accused the MB of hiring rape gangs had NO evidence and claimed it was her "belief"..

The following article is well written and highly accurate.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood: Its History and Egypt's Future

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood: Its History and Egypt's Future - NationalJournal.com
 
sharon said:
The woman who accused the MB of hiring rape gangs had NO evidence and claimed it was her "belief"..

The following article is well written and highly accurate.

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood: Its History and Egypt's Future

Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood: Its History and Egypt's Future - NationalJournal.com
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Oh well if it's her belief, alrighty then! :roll:

Some are willing to believe the worse and some are all too happy to feed that belief.

Many here are too young to remember our nation looking the other way when reports of SAVAK under the good friend to the USofA the Shah of Iran committed widespread torture and murders.

But have a woman claim there are MB rape squads following the crucifixion squads...

THEN the gullible fall into line....
 
sharon said:
And you are sure this was the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and not another separate group?
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I am sure that that was the "Muslim Brotherhood" irrelevant whether it was from Egypt or any other Islamic country. By the name of this group it sounds to be a brotherhood between Islamic countries, and that is a myth for it is not so (not in practice at least).
 
In our rush to intervene and help these poor Syrians out, let's not forget these are the same people who burn American flags and hate the US to the very core of their existance.

I have all the human sympathy for them, however, I got no dog in their fight. I have to ask myself how willing they would be to help us out if we needed them? And I think we all know the answer to that.
 
sharon said:
And you are sure this was the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood and not another separate group?
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But come to think of it, it all applies to Egypt as well. What is taking so long to recognize our independence my "Muslim brother?" Can't find a pen?
 
Captain America said:
In our rush to intervene and help these poor Syrians out, let's not forget these are the same people who burn American flags and hate the US to the very core of their existance.

I have all the human sympathy for them, however, I got no dog in their fight. I have to ask myself how willing they would be to help us out if we needed them? And I think we all know the answer to that.
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Well here's a point. They do not help even us whom also have a Muslim population. Far from taking on arms, they can't take even a freaking pen and sign a document that only recognizes what we (i.e., You and Us) fought in blood, sweat, and tears to achieve. What do you think it will happen to you "inferdels" (or whatever it is that they call ya) when you would be in such need?
 
DDD said:
But come to think of it, it all applies to Egypt as well. What is taking so long to recognize our independence my "Muslim brother?" Can't find a pen?
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The Muslim Brotherhood is not monolithic.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
You asked what he "could" have done. Since the President never takes an option off the table, then it must have been an option.
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Yes I asked what he could have done, but obviously I wasn't looking for just any ol' thing thats possible but not reasonable. I asked what could have been done differently because I wanted to know what you think he could have done to make the situation better than what it is now.
 
Wiseone said:
Yes I asked what he could have done, but obviously I wasn't looking for just any ol' thing thats possible but not reasonable. I asked what could have been done differently because I wanted to know what you think he could have done to make the situation better than what it is now.
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But perhaps there are some people that do view it as reasonable. Probably not for combat but for a show. The US has a history of that being effective.

As for what Obama could do, I mentioned earlier that he could still go to Cairo and make another speech.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
But perhaps there are some people that do view it as reasonable. Probably not for combat but for a show. The US has a history of that being effective.

As for what Obama could do, I mentioned earlier that he could still go to Cairo and make another speech.
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Somehow I don't think you're being serious
 
Wiseone said:
Somehow I don't think you're being serious
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Don't be so cynical. He was very popular there last time he spoke in 2009, some would suggest very inspirational. Regular Egyptians have a very positive view of the US and a very positive view of Obama.
 
Everything is Obama's fault. Even how Egyptians vote.
 
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