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Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

Your response was cpompletely unrelated to my post and question.

You said that the Constitution was secular and I said, which we know to be true, that the Muslim Brotherhood is changing that Constitution.

You then begin defending Sharia Law, despite my not mentioning it at all.

It seems we both agree that Egypt will come under the control of Muslims, Sharia law, and will no longer be a secular state. Would that be correct?

Show me where Sharia law is codified and practiced the same in every Muslim country.

I don't think Egypt will be under Sharia Law.. but then I have read their constitution. It would be like electing a Jewish president in the US and fearing that he would return to the law of the Levites.
 
I created an account on this site just so I could tell you that you are blinded by your wish for Islam to modernize, despite the very apparent intolerance of modern Islam.

Well that's nice that you joined but currently in Saudi Arabia.. Islam is changing.. The ulema is rethinking the old ways of looking at what Sharia means.
 
Obama still remains silent on the Muslim Brotherhood and Egypt's new dictator he helped install, amazing!


"Egypt’s embattled Muslim Brotherhood regime is paying gangs of thugs to rape women and beat men who gather in Tahrir Square to protest the power grab of President Mohamed Morsi, say activists.
In a bitter replay of the Arab Spring protests that brought down President Hosni Mubarak nearly two years ago, protesters have flooded the Cairo square to denounce Morsi, who has stripped the judiciary of power and is rushing through an Islamist constitution. And while Mubarak is now in prison for using violence to quell protests targeting him, Morsi’s regime is now accused of doing the same.
“This is still happening now,” Magda Adly, director of the Nadeem Center for Human Rights, told The Times of London. “I believe thugs are being paid money to do this ... the Muslim Brotherhood have the same political approaches as Mubarak.”


Read more: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women | Fox News


Another link if you hate FOX to much to look.

Rape gangs of Tahrir Square | The Times


Question now is, where is the obama media on this story?


Not only do I disagree with your basic point that it's all Obama's fault but I also laugh because you obviously don't know that Murdoch owns the Times of London if you think that using it as "independent verification" would actually be valid
 
Seems that many in here that so defend Obama need to study what a caliphate is....

There won't ever be another Caliphate...... unless its an honorarium.

Every country has its own aspirations.. and no two Muslims ever agree on anything.
 
There won't ever be another Caliphate...... unless its an honorarium.

Every country has its own aspirations.. and no two Muslims ever agree on anything.


Hmmmm....Funny how the states falling to Islamic rule under Iran style theocracies is stunning when you look at a map of it...Couple that with the utter weakness Obama is showing in that part of the world, and it doesn't look good.
 
Hmmmm....Funny how the states falling to Islamic rule under Iran style theocracies is stunning when you look at a map of it...Couple that with the utter weakness Obama is showing in that part of the world, and it doesn't look good.

Iran is Persian Shia.. How exactly do you compare that with Lebanon, KSA, Qatar, the UAE or Kuwait?

Its delusional to think that Obama controls the Muslim world.
 
Iran is Persian Shia.. How exactly do you compare that with Lebanon, KSA, Qatar, the UAE or Kuwait?

Its delusional to think that Obama controls the Muslim world.


I don't think Obama controls anything...I think he has so screwed up the foreign policy in the ME, that no one, not even Assad is afraid of his ever changing threat of a red line....As for the different sects of Islam, of those that are radical in the religion, their goal is beyond sect.
 
Well that's nice that you joined but currently in Saudi Arabia.. Islam is changing.. The ulema is rethinking the old ways of looking at what Sharia means.

The only change in Islam is that it is becoming ever more militant and violent. Otherwise the same old prejudices remain.
 
I don't think Obama controls anything...I think he has so screwed up the foreign policy in the ME, that no one, not even Assad is afraid of his ever changing threat of a red line....As for the different sects of Islam, of those that are radical in the religion, their goal is beyond sect.

Oh please.. Has Iran or Israel or Iraq or Afghanistan EVER been afraid of the US?

You have stopped thinking in your blame of Obama.
 
There won't ever be another Caliphate...... unless its an honorarium.

Every country has its own aspirations.. and no two Muslims ever agree on anything.

if there is an agreement between Muslims it is a hatred against Christians, Jews, or people or symbols of any other religion.
 
The only change in Islam is that it is becoming ever more militant and violent. Otherwise the same old prejudices remain.

Have you spent any time in the ME? What have you experienced first hand?

From my perspective the Arab countries have always been safe and friendly.

I will grant you that Saudi Arabia took a huge step backward in 1979 for a number of reasons... ... but from my experience reform has been in the air since 2000 and is proceeding quite rapidly since 2005.
Here's an excerpt from a very long piece.

I have chosen the fierce debate over gender mixing (ikhtilat) as an illustration of the convoluted process of reform. Gender segregation in schools, universities, charitable organizations, hospitals, restaurants, government offices and other public spaces is one of the defining features of Saudi Arabia. As several researchers have pointed out, this is not a traditional practice in Saudi society.9 It was actively promoted in the 1980s and 1990s by the state, the revivalist Sahwa movement,10 conservative ulama and the religious police, who enforce public moral behavior. Although the position of women has improved since 9/11, ikhtilat demarcates the battle lines between reformists and conservatives. Any attempt to diminish its enforcement is regarded as a direct attack on the standing of conservatives and Islam itself.11

In the following pages, I trace the ikhtilat debate from its eruption in October 2009 to the start of its fourth round in May 2010. I closely analyze the arguments and positions of the four main players around which the debate has concentrated (Sheikh Saad al-****hri, Sheikh Ahmad al-Ghamidi, Sheikh Abd al-Rahman al-Barrak, and Sheikh Yusuf al-Ahmad), examine their backgrounds and allies, and assess the support or neglect they have garnered in higher state circles.

THE PLAYERS

Revising strict gender segregation has been on the agenda for the past 10 years,12 but what really triggered the present clash of interests was the decision on February 14, 2009, to overhaul the personnel of the highest government agencies.13 The opening in September 2009 of the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST), which has become the symbol of reform and acceptable ikhtilat, exacerbated the already deep apprehension of the conservatives.

Middle East Policy Council | Reform in Saudi Arabia: The Gender-Segregation Debate
 
Where did you go, Grant? I thought we were going to have a conversation.
 
Have you spent any time in the ME? What have you experienced first hand?

Unfortunately, Islam is not confined to the Middle East.



From my perspective the Arab countries have always been safe and friendly.

Then you cannot Jewish, Christian or Gay.

I will grant you that Saudi Arabia took a huge step backward in 1979 for a number of reasons... ... but from my experience reform has been in the air since 2000 and is proceeding quite rapidly since 2005.

Which Middle East country actually took a step forward?
Here's an excerpt from a very long piece.

I have chosen the fierce debate over gender mixing (ikhtilat) as an illustration of the convoluted process of reform. Gender segregation in schools, universities, charitable organizations, hospitals, restaurants, government offices and other public spaces is one of the defining features of Saudi Arabia. As several researchers have pointed out, this is not a traditional practice in Saudi society.9 It was actively promoted in the 1980s and 1990s by the state, the revivalist Sahwa movement,10 conservative ulama and the religious police, who enforce public moral behavior. Although the position of women has improved since 9/11, ikhtilat demarcates the battle lines between reformists and conservatives. Any attempt to diminish its enforcement is regarded as a direct attack on the standing of conservatives and Islam itself.11

In the following pages, I trace the ikhtilat debate from its eruption in October 2009 to the start of its fourth round in May 2010. I closely analyze the arguments and positions of the four main players around which the debate has concentrated (Sheikh Saad al-****hri, Sheikh Ahmad al-Ghamidi, Sheikh Abd al-Rahman al-Barrak, and Sheikh Yusuf al-Ahmad), examine their backgrounds and allies, and assess the support or neglect they have garnered in higher state circles.

THE PLAYERS

Revising strict gender segregation has been on the agenda for the past 10 years,12 but what really triggered the present clash of interests was the decision on February 14, 2009, to overhaul the personnel of the highest government agencies.13 The opening in September 2009 of the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology (KAUST), which has become the symbol of reform and acceptable ikhtilat, exacerbated the already deep apprehension of the conservatives.

Middle East Policy Council | Reform in Saudi Arabia: The Gender-Segregation Debate

Thank you for that but it doesn't demonstrate that Islam, or its adherents, are moving any closer to the modern world and a more "live and let live" philosophy. These backward people are simply not intelligent enough to tell others how to live their lives, what sexual rules others might have, how women should behave, or any of that. I really don't care much about their internecine difficulties but it is spilling over to the civilized world, and that should be a concern to everyone.
 
Unfortunately, Islam is not confined to the Middle East.



Then you cannot Jewish, Christian or Gay.


Which Middle East country actually took a step forward?


Thank you for that but it doesn't demonstrate that Islam, or its adherents, are moving any closer to the modern world and a more "live and let live" philosophy. These backward people are simply not intelligent enough to tell others how to live their lives, what sexual rules others might have, how women should behave, or any of that. I really don't care much about their internecine difficulties but it is spilling over to the civilized world, and that should be a concern to everyone.

Oh I am Christian and there are many gays in Saudi Arabia...
 
Then a great deal depends where you are in the Middle east, I suppose.

I can be Gay, Jewish or Christian anywhere in the western democracies and feel perfectly safe. Not so in the Middle east.
 
Then a great deal depends where you are in the Middle east, I suppose.

I can be Gay, Jewish or Christian anywhere in the western democracies and feel perfectly safe. Not so in the Middle east.

Admittedly the only places I have lived are Saudi Arabia, Libya and Kuwait.......
 
Admittedly the only places I have lived are Saudi Arabia, Libya and Kuwait.......

That's pretty good. I had a stopover in Bahrain airport once for a few hours but that's been my only visit, if you can even call it that.
 
That's pretty good. I had a stopover in Bahrain airport once for a few hours but that's been my only visit, if you can even call it that.

I was over there for two decades. with many visits to Iran and Iraq and multiple longer visits to Jordan and Lebanon... so I have a keen interests in the region.. I never had any problems and I am obviously an American Christian.

I never encountered terrorists, militants and extremists so I tend to think they are a minority.
 
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