• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

Catawba said:
Your math is way off. But thank you for demonstrating the "garbage in = garbage out" axiom. :cool:
Click to expand...

Is this your idea of a snappy rebuttal? Do the genuine issues just whiz over your head?

Aren't you the same guy who was cheering on the president to spend more millions on his holiday?
 
Grant said:
Is this your idea of a snappy rebuttal?
Click to expand...

Its an accurate description, but glad you thought it was snappy!

Do the genuine issues just whiz over your head?
Click to expand...

Why don't you try a genuine issue instead of BS and we'll see?


Aren't you the same guy who was cheering on the president to spend more millions on his holiday?
Click to expand...

As has been pointed out this president has taken fewer vacations than most, and he has had to put up with more buttheads than most. He deserves a vacation.
 
Catawba said:
Its an accurate description, but glad you thought it was snappy!
Click to expand...

What is it about the reading and comprehension skills of the Left? Don't you even try to grasp ideas? Is there some internal hard drive that just runs on its own like those 100 monkeys with typewriters being expected to one day write something intelligent?

You might start by responding directly to the quotes.

As has been pointed out this president has taken fewer vacations than most, and he has had to put up with more buttheads than most. He deserves a vacation.
Click to expand...

But now the country is in greater debt than it ever was before and Bush is no longer president.
 
Grant said:
What is it about the reading and comprehension skills of the Left? Don't you even try to grasp ideas? Is there some internal hard drive that just runs on its own like those 100 monkeys with typewriters being expected to one day write something intelligent?

You might start by responding directly to the quotes.
Click to expand...

Only if you start saying something worthy enough to quote.

But now the country is in greater debt than it ever was before and Bush is no longer president.
Click to expand...

No one expected the president to fix 30 years of Reaganomics in just 4 years. Get real! Considering the do nothing Congress that has stood in his way, I think its amazing he was able to pass health care reform, save the auto industry, end the recession and now finally making the rich once again pay their fair share!
 
apdst said:
Liberals.....................
Click to expand...

According to the red state - blue state breakdown, we already pay more than our share. Most of which goes to those states run by conservatives.
 
Wiggen said:
According to the red state - blue state breakdown, we already pay more than our share. Most of which goes to those states run by conservatives.
Click to expand...

So lets see how the American uncivil war is doing.

Black versus White.

Latino versus White

Black versus Latino

Left versus Right

Left versus Christians

Left versus Jews

Right versus women

Left versus Rich

Blue States versus Red States.

How many more can we add to the list?
 
Grant said:
So would you prefer a flat tax to the progressive tax? What percentage do you think people should pay on their incomes and over what numbers?
Click to expand...

Progressive taxes are the backbone of the middle class. They tax income that is not spent at a higher rate allowing faster growth in our consumer economy and help the limit maldistribution of wealth that has become increasingly damaging since the 1980's. The Reagan AND Bush tax cuts reduced the progressiveness of tax rates and have helped the top 5% QUINTUPLE their fortunes and amass over $40 Trillion in net worth since 1985 all of it at the expense of the 95% This type of coddling is unsustainable and a bigger danger than our debt to our way of life. The ending of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% is an essential part of the reset we so desperately need today. We must reverse these trends or perish.
 
Last edited:
The Republicans should also have their stipulation, that entitlements and welfare spending needs to be reformed/cut.
 
Catawba said:
Only if you start saying something worthy enough to quote.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but please don't misquote me.

No one expected the president to fix 30 years of Reaganomics in just 4 years.
Click to expand...

Barrack Obama did. Remember him saying that if he didn't fix it he'd be out of a job? That Bush was "unpatriotic" because of the debt? Now, as we can all see, Obama has not only not solved the problem, he has built on it, exacerbated it, and divided Americans by doing so.

Get real! Considering the do nothing Congress that has stood in his way, I think its amazing he was able to pass health care reform, save the auto industry, end the recession and now finally making the rich once again pay their fair share!
Click to expand...

Has stood in his way how? There were two years where he had absolute control over House and Senate.

Obama presented a budget turned down by 100% of Congress and !00% of the Senate, by both Democrats and Republicans.
 
iguanaman said:
Progressive taxes are the backbone of the middle class. They tax income that is not spent at a higher rate allowing faster growth in our consumer economy and help the limit maldistribution of wealth that has become increasingly damaging since the 1980's. The Reagan AND Bush tax cuts reduced the progressiveness of tax rates and have helped the top 5% QUINTUPLE their fortunes and amass over $40 Trillion in net worth since 1985 all of it at the expense of the 95% This type of coddling is unsustainable and a bigger danger than our debt to our way of life. The ending of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% is an essential part of the reset we so desperately need today. We must reverse these trends or perish.
Click to expand...

As has been mentioned several thousand times increasing taxes on the wealthy will mot make a dent in what the government is borrowing and spending. It will have no effect whatsoever. if the government gets more money they will simply spend more money, continue to borrow more money and then just print more money.

You and many others are looking for a quick fix to the problem and there is none, at least not without a severe cut in government spending and a similar cut in expectations.

Time to start planning ahead for your own future, and that of your family, rather than relying on the government to look after you. That is what Americans did in the past and managed to be on top of the world for over 200 years, watching other poorly led nations come and go. But rather than adhere to the principles that made the United States the greatest country in the world they decided to adopt the policies that have already failed everywhere else. Now the bill is becoming due, just as it has done everywhere people and their leaders have behaved irresponsibly.
 
Grant said:
As has been mentioned several thousand times increasing taxes on the wealthy will mot make a dent in what the government is borrowing and spending. It will have no effect whatsoever. if the government gets more money they will simply spend more money, continue to borrow more money and then just print more money.

You and many others are looking for a quick fix to the problem and there is none, at least not without a severe cut in government spending and a similar cut in expectations.

Time to start planning ahead for your own future, and that of your family, rather than relying on the government to look after you. That is what Americans did in the past and managed to be on top of the world for over 200 years, watching other poorly led nations come and go. But rather than adhere to the principles that made the United States the greatest country in the world they decided to adopt the policies that have already failed everywhere else. Now the bill is becoming due, just as it has done everywhere people and their leaders have behaved irresponsibly.
Click to expand...

Actually before the New Deal and Social Security most of our countries citizens has NO money when they got too old to work and the "poor house" was their only option if they were so unlucky to live that long. We have no country at all if we fail to take care of our old and sick, that is the lesson that FDR taught us. How many elections will you have to lose before you grasp that?
 
iguanaman said:
Actually before the New Deal and Social Security most of our countries citizens has NO money when they got too old to work and the "poor house" was their only option if they were so unlucky to live that long. We have no country at all if we fail to take care of our old and sick, that is the lesson that FDR taught us. How many elections will you have to lose before you grasp that?
Click to expand...


I don't think that anyone, let me repeat, anyone is saying not to have those safety nets for the old, sick, or people genuinely fallen on hard times. In fact in terms of helping those groups over and above governmental mandated taxation, is squarely overachieved by conservatives over liberals in terms of charitable giving in this country.

What is out of whack is exactly what you and other progressives are advocating, and started in motion by your own declared heros like FDR and his ponzi schemes not to actually help those you claim his programs do, but to keep them on the plantation, subservient to a democrat agenda of vote for us, or starve.

We fought a war with the British for our independence over such pervasive taxation at the time, and rejection of a centrally planned government ruling from on high in London by force. We not only won that war, but showed that a different model could succeed, to become the most powerful, richest nation ever on the face of the earth. Will we be done in by those who perpetually want their mommy to take care of them?

Those liberal progressives that only want to hear their way, or the highway, and could care less about any kind of unity in the country are tearing this country apart, and destroying an era of prosper that may never be captured and harnessed again if they have their way. The guilt of America's success as a nation, and the jealous rage toward those that have achieved financial prosper, and acclaim if palpable. What they don't see is given too fierce a condition in this trend those with the means will simply leave, and take their wealth with them. Then everyone can suffer equally in a "just society"..... Not something I want to see happen. But, progressives obviously do....How sad.
 
iguanaman said:
Actually before the New Deal and Social Security most of our countries citizens has NO money when they got too old to work and the "poor house" was their only option if they were so unlucky to live that long. We have no country at all if we fail to take care of our old and sick, that is the lesson that FDR taught us. How many elections will you have to lose before you grasp that?
Click to expand...

That was back when Americans had families, when they were responsioble for their children, the eldely and helped each other. they learned that life can ber difficult sometimes but that the key was to help each other, look after your interests, and don;t rely on the government.

Now people are expecting government to look after them and of course unscrupulous politicians will encourage and indulge them in this pipe dream. Americans of the past were prepared to face challenges and acceoted them as part of being a strong and independent people?

Now. since the government took over parenting, where the President says someone becomes an adult when they are 26, when a 30 year old woman iss demanding others pay for her birth control is a hero, where abortion mills are paid for by the government, where single women are living lives of quiet desperation and young men roam the street in gangs rather then becoming genuine men, then its time to sit back and ask yourself, "What the hell went wrong??"

If you think it's because of George Bush or insufficient government programs, or not enough government programs, then indeed you are not part of the solution.
 
Wiggen said:
According to the red state - blue state breakdown, we already pay more than our share. Most of which goes to those states run by conservatives.
Click to expand...

Red states have more entitlement classers than blue states. Y'all want them to get their handouts, don't bitch when you have fork over the money. This is the system YOU wanted,
 
iguanaman said:
Actually before the New Deal and Social Security most of our countries citizens has NO money when they got too old to work and the "poor house" was their only option if they were so unlucky to live that long. We have no country at all if we fail to take care of our old and sick, that is the lesson that FDR taught us. How many elections will you have to lose before you grasp that?
Click to expand...

I don't have an issue with taking care of the old and the sick. It's the young and the healthy that I don't want to be paying for.
 
apdst said:
I don't have an issue with taking care of the old and the sick. It's the young and the healthy that I don't want to be paying for.
Click to expand...
Neither do I. I think you are spot on. We should take care of the physically or mentally disabled and our seniors and only help those who can work enough to keep them from going hungry but not to make the comfortable.
 
apdst said:
Red states have more entitlement classers than blue states. Y'all want them to get their handouts, don't bitch when you have fork over the money. This is the system YOU wanted,
Click to expand...
Even in red states from 35% to 45% of the people are democrats, many of whom are on some form of welfare or another; so don't be so quick to judge since you don't know why the red states receive so much federal money. Oops, that should have been directed to Wiggen
 
OpportunityCost said:
If you are going to make nazism innuendos, you can butt right out of the thread. If you have something less stupid to post, please do so.
Click to expand...

Apparently you are ignorant as to the origins of the goose step. Perhaps this will educate and illuminate the darkness for you:

Goose step - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The goose step is a special marching step performed on formal military parades and other ceremonies. While marching in parade formation, troops swing their legs in unison high off the ground, while keeping their knees locked.
Originating in Prussian military drill in the mid-18th century, the step was called the Stechschritt (literally, "piercing step") or Stechmarsch. Although "goose step" is a pejorative term in English, it is used officially by the armed forces of the nearly 30 countries that maintain the tradition.
Click to expand...

30 nations use it now but some who learn all their history from old war films think that it started and ended with the Nazi's. Amazing. It is s great argument for not dropping out of school too early and taking some good history courses. The pejorative only exists out of ignorance and lack of education.

Its really amazing how you have this obsession with attacking me buy only shine a bright spotlight upon your own intellectual shortcomings when you continue to do so.
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
Apparently you are ignorant as to the origins of the goose step. Perhaps this will educate and illuminate the darkness for you:

Goose step - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



30 nations use it now but some who learn all their history from old war films think that it started and ended with the Nazi's. Amazing. It is s great argument for not dropping out of school too early and taking some good history courses. The pejorative only exists out of ignorance and lack of education.

Its really amazing how you have this obsession with attacking me buy only shine a bright spotlight upon your own intellectual shortcomings when you continue to do so.
Click to expand...

Your own definition says it is a pejorative in English, the language we happen to be using on this board. If you didn't relate the term to Nazis, which is the common connection in English, just who were you relating it to? The Prussians?
 
haymarket said:
Apparently you are ignorant as to the origins of the goose step. Perhaps this will educate and illuminate the darkness for you:

Goose step - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



30 nations use it now but some who learn all their history from old war films think that it started and ended with the Nazi's. Amazing. It is s great argument for not dropping out of school too early and taking some good history courses. The pejorative only exists out of ignorance and lack of education.

Its really amazing how you have this obsession with attacking me buy only shine a bright spotlight upon your own intellectual shortcomings when you continue to do so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you want a fishing pole?
Not taking the bait. Have a good one.

Back to the thread, we have to make some attempt to reform our social spending. If that is means testing, or changing actuarials or increasing costs to all---we have to begin to make genuine steps to get the spending under control.
 
Catawba said:
Where do you propose the $2.6 trillion dollars comes from to repay SS the money that was taken so the rich could get huge tax breaks without fulfilling their obligation to provide jobs in return?
Click to expand...

where do you get off claiming those who pay more than 40% of the income taxes and all the federal death taxes somehow have a duty to pay for stuff like this? the middle class got tax breaks too and unlike the "rich" they aren't paying more of the FIT than their share of the income. The RICH are

seems to me its the middle class who got stuff you should be whining about
 
iguanaman said:
Progressive taxes are the backbone of the middle class. They tax income that is not spent at a higher rate allowing faster growth in our consumer economy and help the limit maldistribution of wealth that has become increasingly damaging since the 1980's. The Reagan AND Bush tax cuts reduced the progressiveness of tax rates and have helped the top 5% QUINTUPLE their fortunes and amass over $40 Trillion in net worth since 1985 all of it at the expense of the 95% This type of coddling is unsustainable and a bigger danger than our debt to our way of life. The ending of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% is an essential part of the reset we so desperately need today. We must reverse these trends or perish.
Click to expand...

so the middle class never would have happened unless the idiotic 16th amendment was passed
 
iguanaman said:
Progressive taxes are the backbone of the middle class. They tax income that is not spent at a higher rate allowing faster growth in our consumer economy and help the limit maldistribution of wealth that has become increasingly damaging since the 1980's. The Reagan AND Bush tax cuts reduced the progressiveness of tax rates and have helped the top 5% QUINTUPLE their fortunes and amass over $40 Trillion in net worth since 1985 all of it at the expense of the 95% This type of coddling is unsustainable and a bigger danger than our debt to our way of life. The ending of the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% is an essential part of the reset we so desperately need today. We must reverse these trends or perish.
Click to expand...

Do you know how much money would be gained if all the rich were taxed 100% of their income versus how much money is being borrowed or printed annually by the government, beyond what they bring in?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom