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Thread: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    whatever makes you think that the only place in the world to invest is in American business? capital is extremely fungible. You lower the return on investing in American business, you simply relatively increase the attractiveness of other venues. Given our #1 spot in the Corporate Tax rankings, other nations, eager for the capital, probably can't wait for us to shoot ourselves in the other foot. States will do well, too; their borrowing costs will go down.
    once again, i tend to doubt that treating investment income as income above a cap is going to make most people stop investing in the long term. there might be a large influx of small players to the markets if the cap is properly designed and if the rate under that cap is attractive enough. i would also argue that one tax that is ripe for lowering is the corporate tax. we're much better off taxing individuals while having a very competitive corporate rate. we're kind of doing the opposite right now, and i think that we should make some changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. We also have had many beautiful moments of selflessness in wars in which we blew millions of people into little bits. I'm not really sure how the "we've made it harder before" argument translates into "therefore we should do something stupid now".
    stupid would be going over the cliff and enacting these cuts and rate hikes all at once.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I wouldn't mind a single tier-split as was proposed during the last campaign - that all investment income under $200K, for example, be tax free. Let retirees live with full access to their savings, and encourage the middle and lower income tiers to save and invest.
    we could probably tier it, but i doubt that the cap for no tax could be set at $200k. someone who has done the math on such a proposed system would have to weigh in, though.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    and where do Republicans do this?
    the compromise put forward by them includes no rate hikes and depends on unspecified loopholes to fill the gap. which loopholes?

    likewise, Obama's plan puts it all on the wealthy to solve the problem. both plans are nonstarters, and are designed to be goalposts. i'm sorry to see that the initial offers from both sides ignore reality completely, but that's how it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Europe has tried two-sided austerity, where they reduce spending in order to free up more resources (good) and then try to suck them all back up with higher taxes (bad). The results have.... not been optimal.
    improperly phased in. that should be a lesson to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Agreed, but trying to get the wealthy to "give something" through increasing their tax rates A) will destroy more of the economy (according to the former chair of the PRESIDENTS" OWN council of economic advisers), and B) won't raise additional revenue.

    Far better is to stop spending on the wealthy. The Wealthy Need To Pay Up? Okay. Let's raise the retirement age to 67. Unless you have more than 5 million dollars. Then you do not need nor will you get Social Security or Medicare at all. Everyone gave up some, the wealthy gave up the most, and we actually managed to reduce the deficit without wrecking the economy any further.
    i'm ok with means testing and perhaps raising the contribution ceiling, but cutting the wealthy completely out of the system isn't something i support. if they paid in, they should be able to collect.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes. the problem is that you can't increase revenue by increasing rates - you increase it by increasing GDP and growth while reducing the relative size of government.
    i doubt that we're at the far right of the Laffer curve, and i haven't read too many unbiased economists arguing that we were. raising rates will increase revenue, but it has to be done carefully, as do the spending cuts. we definitely need growth, but going over the cliff risks killing both supply and demand sides for years to come. growth is screwed if we go over the cliff.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    List the top ten things to cut please? And how much cut comes from each of those top ten?

    Please.

    I'll wait - but I won't hold my breath.

    What are "THE CUTS" that everybody wants to see happen?
    I don't know if I can come up with 10 off the top of my head, but I will give you a few:

    Welfare, ADC, WIC, cell phones, section 8, any others. 10% for starters. Alternative energy and other green projects - 100%. Either the market will step in or it won't. Subsidies to individuals and businesses large and small, 10%.

    Government salaries and pensions, including their own - an easy $15% can be cut, and even then the salaries will be higher than the comparable private sector.

    Too big to fail bailouts - 100%.

    Education - 100% by the federal government, including the department of education.

    Illegal immigration - 100%, slightly offset by the need for greater border security.

    Those are just a few. There are others.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Many countries in Europe have higher tax rates for their weathy than the US has>

    From this article:


    The newly elected Socialist Party in France is poised to institute a major tax hike on the nation's wealthiest. To help pay down the country's debt, French President Francois Hollande wants to raise the tax rate on income over 1 million euros (or $1.23 million) from 48 percent to 75 percent. This tax hike would affect about 30,000 French citizens - or .046 percent of the population. The French Parliament will take up the issue in September.

    Hollande's tax hike on the rich was part of his presidential campaign platform. There are a number of experts - in France and the U.S. - who are skeptical that raising taxes on the wealthy will reduce the country's fiscal burden.

    "France is headed into a recession, if it is not in one already," says former Republican presidential candidate Steve Forbes in the accompanying interview. "Piling on new taxes when you have a contracting economy, that is lethal. That is poison."

    There is no question that a top tax rate of 75 percent is very high. But many countries in Europe already have a tax rate of 50 percent or more.
    read more:
    Tax Rates: Does the U.S. Have the Highest in the World? | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    It is also the promise he campaigned on. And in part due to that promise the People delivered him the Presidency. So he should break that promise to assuage the Republicans? I am not yet convinced he won't break that promise, but he shouldn't. And if he does break that promise, you can be sure the Republicans will pain him the liar. And they would be correct in doing so if he does cave on this.
    He campaigned on the same thing in 2008... and got the same results. Why anybody thinks things will be different this time around is a little hard to understand. Exactly what's changed since he failed to get this done for the last 4 years?

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Many countries in Europe have higher tax rates for their weathy than the US has>

    From this article:



    read more:
    Tax Rates: Does the U.S. Have the Highest in the World? | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance
    Should we even care what the tax rates in Europe are? Aren't most of the EU countries in even worse shape than we are?

    You can make a list of the countries with lower or no tax rates and I think you would find that many of them are doing quite well. Not that this means anything. Someone has to pay the bills, and many of the low tax countries have other sources of income. France's problems seem to stem not from a lack of revenue, but rather a glut of spending. Does this sound familiar? So what is the solution, Barry and Holland say raise the taxes on the rich, I would suggest that living within your budget might be a better solution. The real question is what needs to be done with our situation.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    The GOP is doing the EXACT same thing by saying they REFUSE to sign ANYTHING that raises taxes.

    Both sides are digging their heals into the ground and the American people will suffer in one way or another with BOTH sides doing this type of ****.
    The GOP stance has been that we have a spending problem not a revenue problem so they have made a huge concession by agreeing to bring more money into gov coffers. Obama on the other hand will not give an inch.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I disagree completely. Obama needs to stand firm on this and let the chips fall where they may. He was elected to do this the first time and caved to the Republicans. He was elected on the same agenda and given a second chance. He cannot allow the Republicans to hold the middle and working class hostage in order to protect the interests of their base. The American people understand that the Republicans care mostly about the wealthy and they will pay the political price if they take the middle class and working class over the cliff.
    I'll be curious if you still feel this way after you and or your friends and family lose their jobs, homes and cars.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    This is such a freaking game. Too bad we can't "blanket impeach" Congress.
    I have a more drastic idea than impeachment but the FBI might read this.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    I will be very disappointed if the GOP does not call his bluff.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I'll be curious if you still feel this way after you and or your friends and family lose their jobs, homes and cars.
    LOL.....sorry....but it is the Republican path of ensuring that the wealth gets more and more redistributed to the wealthy that is going to result in people losing their homes and cars and ensures that the "jobs" will still be there, but keeps the people hungry enough to work for peanuts.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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