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Thread: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is not an answer....Here I'll ask it again for you....Could you specify what cuts to the military budget you would make, and how many you foresee becoming unemployed due to your cuts?
    Its not worth my time, because it will never happen until the country decides we have a debt problem.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "Defense spending is about to enter a steep decline that may force the Pentagon to abandon some military missions, shrink the armed forces and perhaps limit America’s role in the world" Defense Secretary Robert Gates said.

    The Constitutional Charge to Defend America

    This is obviously a problem.

    If we can't continue to be the world's policeman, then this is a dealbreaker.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The Heritage Foundation? You've got to be ****ing kidding me!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not worth my time, because it will never happen until the country decides we have a debt problem.

    So then you are conceding the argument, because either 1. You don't know what you would cut further than that which has already been cut, hence you just spew the line because it is on the talking point sheet you are basing argument from, or 2. You know that it will harm employment, and the country's defense to cut more, and it would kill you to admit that I am right....

    Look Cat, Entitlements are the real meat and potato's to this argument, without them being in the mix, we have nothing.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    This is obviously a problem.

    If we can't continue to be the world's policeman, then this is a dealbreaker.
    I don't like being the worlds policeman either, but the lone superpower has responsibilities.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Heritage Foundation? You've got to be ****ing kidding me!
    Put Alinsky down....Attacking the source is banal, and boring.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    You're history is laughably flawed

    Every time taxes have been cut, (especially Capital Gains) revenue to the Treasury has increased.
    It's something how these rightwing talking points, i.e. lies, refuse to die.

    Taxes were cut in 1919 -- revenue fell that year (i)
    Taxes were cut in 1922 -- revenue fell that year (a)

    Taxes were cut in 1924 -- revenue rose that year (i)
    Taxes were cut in 1925 -- revenue fell that year (i)
    Taxes were cut in 1946 -- revenue fell that year (a)

    Taxes were cut in 1948 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1964 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1965 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1970 -- revenue fell that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1971 -- revenue fell that year (a)

    Taxes were cut in 1981 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1982 -- revenue fell that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1987 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 1988 -- revenue rose that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 2001 -- revenue fell that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 2002 -- revenue fell that year (a)
    Taxes were cut in 2003 -- revenue fell that year (a)

    (i) = interpolated between actual reported values
    (a) = actual reported

    Government Tax and Revenue Chart: United States 1910-2012 - Federal State Local Data
    Docudharma:: Historical Income Tax Rates for the Top Tax Bracket -- with Charts

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    In 1980, when Ronald Reagan was elected, the GDP was $2.79 trillion, and the debt was 32.6% of GDP. In the last full year of Ronald Regan’s tenure in 1988, GDP was $5.1 trillion, and the debt was 51% of GDP.

    So notice that the GDP increased by a whopping 82% over just 8 years under Reagan. That is a huge leap.
    No, that is huge asininity. That's using nominal figures, not real figures. That's the same failed argument that everyone laughed at Conservative at for relying on because he like the results of nominal figures better than real figures. In the real world, Reagan saw a 30% gain.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Under Obama between 2008 and 2010, it increased only about 3%.
    This is more idiocy as it attributes 2008, a year that Bush was president, to Obama. Furthermore, you use these dates because they encompass Bush's Great Recession, which saw a 5% drop in GDP. Again, nothing to do with Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Reagan did cut taxes on “the rich” from 70% to 28%, a drop of 60%. By liberal accounting, that should have caused revenues to the government to fall by 60%. But revenues to the federal treasury went from $517 billion in 1980 to $991 billion in 1989, increasing by 91%.
    This is just painful to read because it completely ignores the fact that Reagan raised taxes on 11 occasions during that period, which is what raised revenues.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    They only like to point out that during Reagan’s presidency the debt increased from $909 billion in 1980 when Reagan was elected to $2.857 trillion by 1989 when Reagan left office. So they always say, “Reagan tripled the national debt because he lowered tax rates”.
    Umm, that's because Reagan did triple the debt. There is no denying that, try as you might.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    Technically, they can say that that is true, that he tripled the debt. But if you consider the debt increase as a percentage of the whole national wealth (GDP) went from 32.6% to 51%, that is a 59% increase relative to the whole economy, not a 300% increase (tripling) like liberals say. And still, after defeating the Soviet Union with a huge military buildup, the final debt of the Reagan years was only about half (51% of GDP) of what it is today (100% of GDP).

    Yet even this 59% increase in the debt was caused mostly by the Democrats in Congress. Here is how:

    Reagan cut top tax rates which set off an economic boom, causing huge inflows to the treasury. He then spent some of that money on the military to defeat the Soviet Union – certainly some of the best-spent dollars in American history.
    This is just more rightwing jism. After Reagan's tax cuts, we had a recession and a drop in federal revenue. It was only after he raised taxes that the economy turned around. Also, blaming Democrats for the increased debt is beyond ludicrous as it came from Reagan's increased defense spending, which you pretend was only "some money." And it's laughable that he defeated the Soviet Union since history teaches us that perestroika finished off the USSR, as Gorbachev tried to reinvent their government and their economy.

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