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Thread: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    ...We need to cut our wasteful military spending. We can no longer afford to spend as mush as the rest of the world combined on the military...
    That's pretty vague. The "military budget" covers quite a bit, including quite a few union jobs. What would you cut, and how many jobs do you think your hack, and slash the military would eliminate?
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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Or, you know, the President is being realistic and facing the stone
    cold fact that we can't balance the budget without raising taxes.
    Oh what total bs.

    If he was being " realistic " he would cut spending and entitlments immediately.

    Tax increases do not add revenue and there are already tax increases on people in Obama Care.

    The whole tax the rich narrative is a lie from a pathological President who said himsf its about "fairness".

    I want for Christmas for every liberal to get the rest of their brain that was left out by a God with a great sense of humor

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then how did Reagan increase the debt more than all the presidents before him combined, if Reaganomics (tax cuts + increased military spending) didn't produce debt?
    'In 1980, when Ronald Reagan was elected, the GDP was $2.79 trillion, and the debt was 32.6% of GDP. In the last full year of Ronald Regan’s tenure in 1988, GDP was $5.1 trillion, and the debt was 51% of GDP.

    So notice that the GDP increased by a whopping 82% over just 8 years under Reagan. That is a huge leap. Under Obama between 2008 and 2010, it increased only about 3%.

    Reagan did cut taxes on “the rich” from 70% to 28%, a drop of 60%. By liberal accounting, that should have caused revenues to the government to fall by 60%. But revenues to the federal treasury went from $517 billion in 1980 to $991 billion in 1989, increasing by 91%. Wow! So indeed, tax cuts on the wealthy did what they always do – they produced economic growth. In 1921, cuts in the top rate from 63% to 25% produced The Roaring 1920s.

    The liberals never, ever want you to know about the huge surge in the economy in the 1980s, and huge gains in employment, more than 20 million jobs. They only like to point out that during Reagan’s presidency the debt increased from $909 billion in 1980 when Reagan was elected to $2.857 trillion by 1989 when Reagan left office. So they always say, “Reagan tripled the national debt because he lowered tax rates”.

    Technically, they can say that that is true, that he tripled the debt. But if you consider the debt increase as a percentage of the whole national wealth (GDP) went from 32.6% to 51%, that is a 59% increase relative to the whole economy, not a 300% increase (tripling) like liberals say. And still, after defeating the Soviet Union with a huge military buildup, the final debt of the Reagan years was only about half (51% of GDP) of what it is today (100% of GDP).

    Yet even this 59% increase in the debt was caused mostly by the Democrats in Congress. Here is how:

    Reagan cut top tax rates which set off an economic boom, causing huge inflows to the treasury. He then spent some of that money on the military to defeat the Soviet Union – certainly some of the best-spent dollars in American history.

    But at the same time, the heavily-Democrat Congress went on a wild spending spree after promising not to, like typical Democrats (the agreement was called TEFRA. You can search it on the internet to read about it). So it was not tax cuts that caused the debt – they caused the boom. And while military spending did cause the debt to rise somewhat, it was the Democrats’ massive spending that really caused the spike.

    Yet Reagan policies have historically been blamed by Democrats like Obama only for the bad things but never for the really big accomplishments which were a booming economy and, most significantly, the defeat of Soviet communism.'

    About That ‘Reagan Debt’ | RedState
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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's pretty vague. The "military budget" covers quite a bit, including quite a few union jobs. What would you cut, and how many jobs do you think your hack, and slash the military would eliminate?
    While there is not much I agree with Libertarians about, I agree with them that we should go back to defense only, as proscribed in the Constitution. We have much need for infrastructure in this country for those leaving the military.

    Its time to do some nation building here at home.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That's pretty vague. The "military budget" covers quite a bit, including quite a few union jobs. What would you cut, and how many jobs do you think your hack, and slash the military would eliminate?
    Oh no, you screwed up. You admitted that Govt. spending creates jobs. That is a no no. Shame on you, RINO

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    While there is not much I agree with Libertarians about, I agree with them that we should go back to defense only, as proscribed in the Constitution. We have much need for infrastructure in this country for those leaving the military.

    Its time to do some nation building here at home.
    That is not an answer....Here I'll ask it again for you....Could you specify what cuts to the military budget you would make, and how many you foresee becoming unemployed due to your cuts?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Oh no, you screwed up. You admitted that Govt. spending creates jobs. That is a no no. Shame on you, RINO
    The military is constitutional.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    Yet Reagan policies have historically been blamed by Democrats
    Spin all you like, the debt under Reagan was more than all the presidents before him combined. And most of that was due to two of Reagan's policies - tax cuts combined with drastically increased spending on the military. Yes, congress passed those policies that Reagan pushed. But it was those policies he pushed that created our debt, and continues to create our debt.

    That was the main theme of the whole presidential election we just went through! Whether we wanted to continue Reaganomics, or try building a strong middle class that creates consumer demand so that our economy can prosper.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The military is constitutional.
    Only defense is constitutional.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Only defense is constitutional.

    this may help you understand where conservatives are coming from concerning defense.

    "The President’s entire defense role is confined to Article 2, Section 2:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States.
    But Article I, Section 8 enumerates the powers of Congress in 17 separate clauses. Six of these pertain to national defense. These include raising and supporting armies and a navy, making the rules that govern the armed forces, and organizing, arming, and disciplining the state-level militia as well as the army and navy.

    Unfortunately, current budget discussions are lopsided when they place military spending on the same priority level—or worse—as other spending. It is the height of irony that social spending is considered “mandatory” whereas defense spending is considered “discretionary.”

    snip

    "Defense spending is now 20.1 percent of federal outlays.[3] Yet some, such as President Obama, want the brunt of spending cutbacks to come from the military. Obama’s revised (but not detailed) plan for fiscal year (FY) 2012 calls for $400 billion in defense cuts over the next 10 years, mostly by canceling or delaying over 50 major weapons programs."

    snip

    "Defense spending is about to enter a steep decline that may force the Pentagon to abandon some military missions, shrink the armed forces and perhaps limit America’s role in the world, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said.… [Gates] said he has already reduced or eliminated spending in the most obvious areas. “The ‘low-hanging fruit’—those weapons and other programs considered most questionable—have not only been plucked, they have been stomped and crushed,” he said.[6]
    Policymakers should avoid the temptation to design America’s national security to meet an arbitrary budget and instead find the budget to meet its security needs. This process is known as defining the requisite “force structure,” which is done every four years by the Pentagon in its Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR). The most recent version was compiled in 2010 but was tainted by an effort to align it with the Obama Administration’s philosophy more than with military security needs.[7]

    Finding that the QDR therefore was “inadequate to protect vital U.S. national interests,” The Heritage Foundation commissioned its own bottom-up look at the U.S. military and presented a highly detailed report of the manpower, ships, planes, logistics, and equipment that are needed.[8] The conclusion is that funding the core defense program would cost an average of approximately $720 billion per year for the five-year period from FY 2012 to FY 2016. This covers not only traditional military but also force structure to address cyberwarfare and terrorist threats."

    The Constitutional Charge to Defend America
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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