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Thread: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Accept they're at least going to a compromised position.

    Obama "I will not do any deal that does not raise revenue specifically through raising the tax rate on brackets above $250,000"

    Republicans "We don't want to increase taxes at all, but we're willing to increase them through removal of loopholes and deductions...even in a way that primarily affects those making above $250,000."
    With no example of what specifically HOW they are going to raise revenue without raising taxes, it's all "magically rhetoric". I don't think it's compromise if you can't say how SPECIFICALLY you are going to do something. This is something both the GOP and Dems do which should be appauling to voters.

    So what we have is Obama digging his heels in and the GOP saying vaguely they will do something. I don't think that is compromise IMO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Now there's nothing wrong with Obama doing that....it's his perogative, especially after the election. But to attempt to suggest that the two sides are acting the same here is ridiculous. One side is refusing to give an inch, the other side is giving half an inch but not the other half.
    So one side is not giving an inch and the other side is saying they will but won't say how. Sorry but again I think not doing something and rhetoric of doing something ARE the exact same when you take a look at the outcome. Just my opinion though.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Remove the debt ceiling, and I believe we can destroy the world economy.
    I agree, I don't want it removed completely. I just think there are times, such as all out war, that it might have to be raised.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely agree here. The GOP needs to put forth, at the very least, a general proposed "we can do these specific loopholes" plan initially. If they want to work with Democrats afterwards to tweak that, so be it. But they need some specifics.
    And that is why I don't really believe the GOP is compromising because it's just rhetoric until something specific is given. Also not faulting just the GOP, the Dems are at fault for not coming up with cuts (besides defense) as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    That said...for a side that continues to talk about needing to take a "balanced approach" to dealing with our defiict problem, there's a definite problem. Refusing to talk about anything right now other than tax cuts and putting spending cuts off till later, ignoring the fact that CURRENT spending levels are artificially inflated due to the massive increase for supposedly "emergency" reasons over the past few years and using current spending as the "normal" baseline, and attempting to claim common sense occuring things as a large portion of your "Cuts" is ridiculous.
    I agree with you there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    We're not going to see antyhing worth while done because neither side is going to show an honest, good faith, reasonable bending on the portion of this they don't want to deal with.
    Definitely agree there as well.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    It is also the promise he campaigned on. And in part due to that promise the People delivered him the Presidency. So he should break that promise to assuage the Republicans? I am not yet convinced he won't break that promise, but he shouldn't. And if he does break that promise, you can be sure the Republicans will pain him the liar. And they would be correct in doing so if he does cave on this.
    Actually it is now DOUBLE the amount of taxation increase that he campaigned on (it went from $800 billion to $1.6 trillion, after the re-election). Speaking of Obama campaign promises, what of the "cut the defict in half" promise that he made in 2008? Of course, that did not matter in the 2012 election since Obama simply blew that off as "unfinished business" requiring yet another term. No he can't!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I do have one confusing thing on this.

    I routinely hear, when people bring up the tax burden of the upper class, others try and suggest that in reality the "rich" benefit the most from the government's spending and programs and thus SHOULD pay a disproportionate amount.

    However....

    When talk of cutting spending comes up, the same kind of people typically suggest that it's the middle and lowe classes tha twill be hurt most by that.

    How exactly does that convienet dichotomy work?
    It doesn't work, and that is the problem. The reality is that the poor benefit far more in proportion to their contribution to the system than the rich. A school age child costs the same whether or not the parent is rich or poor. It takes no more roads for the Rolls Royce crowd than the 72 Olds crowd. I've never heard of one of the top 2% drawing welfare or unemployment.

    The reason that the system is the way it is is that the rich man gets one vote, the poor man gets one vote, and their are far more poor (and middle class) than there are rich. By definitiion, it's 98% against 2%.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    The better plan would be to produce a budget first. Keep in mind we have not had a budget adopted since Obama took office. You can't figure out what your revenue needs to be without knowing what your expenses are, which proves that this tax plan is not about revenue at all. It is simply punitive. The idea is to create a system that keeps people from moving up. Those who do not aspire to advancement or can't accomplish it seem to think reducing the number and size of the rich and and their holdings will somehow benefit them, it simply isn't true. The money is not being taken from the rich and given to the poor, it is being taken by the government and used to create a dependent class in order to enhance the power of the government. Unfortunately the voting public are on average stupid and don't realize they are being played, but they will. And by then it will be too late because once we grant a power to the government it is nearly impossible to reverse it. Sadly after the rich have been reduced the poor will still be poor and will continue to blame the rich instead of the government who has enslaved them.

    Just read this one yesterday (yes, I'm that guy. 5 minutes of 'light reading' in the morning gets me started with something to think about)

    Proverbs 22:7

    The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is the slave of the lender.
    The problem is that people don't understand the meaning of "rich". It is not necessarily about money. It can be, but that is only a part of it. Money can be power. In the context of government, those who have money are not as powerful as the government that writes the rules, especially a government that can confiscate or print all the money it wants. The government is very good at causing division between groups of people while profiting from it and blaming it on those they caused division between. The rich are not taking your money, the government is. The rich are not taking your choices in health care away, the government is. When was the last time Bill Gates deducted money from your paycheck?

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Obama is playing politics with the lives of us Americans he supposedly is in office to do good things for. His statement that he will not sign a bill that does not raise taxes on the rich proves he is more interested in destroying Republicans than he is in leading us out of this horrible economy. If Reps can find a way to meet his dollar requirements through closing loop holes the rich use then there should be a deal. What obama wants though is to weaken Reps with their base by forcing them to break their pledge not to raise taxes or to go over the cliff and blame it on Reps in order to turn the general public against them. Obama just may drag us into another recession, possibly even a new depression.


    "President Obama today declared there would be no deal to avert the looming fiscal cliff unless Republicans agree to raise rates on the top 2 percent of income-earners."

    No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says - ABC News
    6 out 0f 10 americans agree with raising taxes on people who make over 250,00. He ran on that promise, he won and now he is making good on it. If the GOP does not agree to negotiate the percentage of the increase it is their fault, not the Pres.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Speaking of Obama campaign promises, what of the "cut the defict in half" promise that he made in 2008? Of course, that did not matter in the 2012 election since Obama simply blew that off as "unfinished business" requiring yet another term. No he can't!
    No argument from me there. He broke several promises. I am sure he will do so again this time around. We'll see if this will be one or not.

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    So what EXACTLY is the "sack full of magic beans" plan for fixing the fiscal cliff if at least PART OF IT can't be raising taxes on the wealthiest of all Americans?
    The "cliff" includes those tax increases on the rich (and everyone else) - as it removes all of the "Bush" tax cuts, and it contains real spending cuts, including dropping the "temporary" unemployment insurance extensions and the SS withholding payday bonus. Neither party wishes to actually change anything that much, so all of the "avoiding the cliff" BS really just amounts to continue to borrow and spend unless entitilement reform is put "on the table". We all know that realistic entitlement reform is not possible in the few of weeks left in the year, so the "game" being played now is which party can "promise" the best sounding deal to be put off until later. USA, USA, USA...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

    Raising the Debt Ceiling Allows the Government to Pay Bills that Congress Already Approved


    [Raising] the debt ceiling does not allow Congress to spend more money.
    It simply gives our country the ability to pay the bills that Congress has already racked up.

    In the past, raising the debt ceiling was routine. Since the 1950s, Congress has always passed it, and every President has signed it.
    Raising the Debt Ceiling Allows the Government to Pay Bills that Congress Already Approved | Democrats.org


    Since congress already approved spending the money why does it have to also approve raising the debt ceiling?

    Bills have to paid. Congree should NOT approve spending money if it does Not intend to pay the bills.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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