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Thread: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

  1. #121
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not at all. It is called opposing something. I know that progressives would just love it if the Conservatives and Republicans would just be quiet, and allow all the progressive failures to be hung on them instead of having to take responsibility for what they put in place, but alas, you'll just have to grow up and acknowledge the foul ups that are Obama's.
    No. Opposing something is when you say, "I disagree with that and think you should do this." Whining exaggerates, says, poor, poor us being picked on by that mean Obama. Whining.



    And here you go, proving my point....Tell me what the republicans, or TP had to do with writing this monstrosity, or for that matter voting it into law? The lie here is so transparent that in a face to face conversation, I doubt you'd be able to even utter that lie without busting out laughing. As for the "Death Panels" that was a term true enough based out of not knowing, or having access to the exact wording of the legislation until literally hours before the Christmas Eve at midnight vote, but a form of that does indeed exist, in the IPAB. Now you can continue to deny that as well, but it just isn't honest.
    A lot. Many of the ideas in it are republican ideas. That's just a fact. Romney, who you would have elected, laid out a lot of the ground work. He even said he'd have kept everything but the way to pay for it.

    But even that mandate has conservative roots:

    The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

    The Heritage Foundation "substantially revised" its proposal four years later, according to a 1994 analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. But the idea of an individual health insurance mandate later appeared in two bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993, according to the non-partisan research group ProCon.org. Among the supporters of the bills were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who today oppose the mandate under current law.

    Read more: Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News


    Add to it that republicans (and the tea party) did derail any honest discourse with the death panel and socialist nonsense, you have to take some responsibility for what happened. Not total responsibility (as I'm not the hack here blaming one side for everything). But part of it.



    That is some astonishing projection you have going on there Joe....
    It's not me blaming the media, or the radical right, or anything but the people involved.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #122
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No. Opposing something is when you say, "I disagree with that and think you should do this." Whining exaggerates, says, poor, poor us being picked on by that mean Obama. Whining.

    I am not whining about anything, now stop with the silliness and address the topic like an adult please.

    A lot. Many of the ideas in it are republican ideas. That's just a fact. Romney, who you would have elected, laid out a lot of the ground work. He even said he'd have kept everything but the way to pay for it.

    But even that mandate has conservative roots:

    The mandate, requiring every American to purchase health insurance, appeared in a 1989 published proposal by Stuart M. Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation called "Assuring Affordable Health Care for All Americans," which included a provision to "mandate all households to obtain adequate insurance."

    The Heritage Foundation "substantially revised" its proposal four years later, according to a 1994 analysis by the Congressional Budget Office. But the idea of an individual health insurance mandate later appeared in two bills introduced by Republican lawmakers in 1993, according to the non-partisan research group ProCon.org. Among the supporters of the bills were senators Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, who today oppose the mandate under current law.

    Read more: Individual health care insurance mandate has roots two decades long | Fox News


    Add to it that republicans (and the tea party) did derail any honest discourse with the death panel and socialist nonsense, you have to take some responsibility for what happened. Not total responsibility (as I'm not the hack here blaming one side for everything). But part of it.

    Wow, how utterly false can you be....Here is a Heritage Foundation statement on Obamacare....


    "Obamacare puts the health care system on the wrong track and will expand the role of the federal government in every component of Americans’ health care. To get the health care system on the right track that empowers patients, reduces cost, and ensures access, Obamacare must be repealed."

    Obamacare

    So obviously demo's changed it enough to make it NOT what Heritage was proposing.

    As for what republicans had to do with Obamacare, that would be nothing...Hell, Pelosi even changed the rules so that they couldn't have a say....

    It's not me blaming the media, or the radical right, or anything but the people involved.
    No, but it is you being dishonest about Obamacare.
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh, did Newsmax misreport something? Is the fee going to be spread on all state exchange insurances equally? Or is this just going to be levied on those states where the Federal government has to set up their traps themselves?
    No, they didn't misreport -- they just misrepresented. Of course the federal exchange fee isn't going to be charged to states that won't be using the federal exchanges. Those states will incur their own costs setting up state exchanges. Hello?
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am not whining about anything, now stop with the silliness and address the topic like an adult please.




    Wow, how utterly false can you be....Here is a Heritage Foundation statement on Obamacare....


    "Obamacare puts the health care system on the wrong track and will expand the role of the federal government in every component of Americans’ health care. To get the health care system on the right track that empowers patients, reduces cost, and ensures access, Obamacare must be repealed."

    Obamacare

    So obviously demo's changed it enough to make it NOT what Heritage was proposing.

    As for what republicans had to do with Obamacare, that would be nothing...Hell, Pelosi even changed the rules so that they couldn't have a say....



    No, but it is you being dishonest about Obamacare.
    I'm sorry j, but I linked them. You confuse one thing with another. And the only people being dishonest are those whining about health reform. Factually, republican ideas are all through it.

    And j, there is nothing silly about calling the whining what is. If you need more links, a fill this thread up with them. The facts are the facts.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #125
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Rapunzel52 View Post
    Residents of states that refuse to set up health insurance exchanges under Obamacare are set to be hit with higher premiums under new rules announced by the Health and Human Services Department.

    Insurance companies will be charged 3.5 percent of any premiums they sell through the federal exchanges, the department announced Friday.

    And insurers are likely to pass that surcharge on to clients, leaading to higher premiums.

    The only states to be affected are those that refuse to set up their own exchanges because of opposition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. They are almost certain to be those under Republican control. In those states, HHS will set up the exchanges.

    Read more: Obama Slaps States That Refuse to Comply With Obamacare


    I can suggest not to buy healthcare in an exchange.

    Another wealth transfer from producers to the recipients. The left is defunding the right...hopefully soon they will run out of other peoples money.
    I think it's the right thing to do.

    Look, the PPACA provides block grants to the states to set up their HIEs. As such, no state really has to spend a dime. Moreover, the Treasury would provide additional non-matching funds for Medicaid for the first 2-yrs once the PPACA goes into effect in 2014. Yet, Republican governors are refusing to establish the state-sponsored HIEs even after most of them stated publically they'd hold off starting them until after the election - a clear indication that if Romney won they'd do nothing except wait for the law to be repealed. But that wait-and-see approach backfired and now these Republican governors have to wait on their congressional Republican colleagues to either defund the PPACA or hope one of their law suits finally wins over the Supreme Court.

    It's more obstructionism, plain and simple. Regardless, the law clearly states that if the states choose not to set-up an exchange, the fed would do it for them and charge them accordingly. At this point, those states that continue to refuse to adhere to the law have only themselves to blame and their residents can bitch to their Governor.

  6. #126
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think it's the right thing to do.

    Look, the PPACA provides block grants to the states to set up their HIEs. As such, no state really has to spend a dime. Moreover, the Treasury would provide additional non-matching funds for Medicaid for the first 2-yrs once the PPACA goes into effect in 2014. Yet, Republican governors are refusing to establish the state-sponsored HIEs even after most of them stated publically they'd hold off starting them until after the election - a clear indication that if Romney won they'd do nothing except wait for the law to be repealed. But that wait-and-see approach backfired and now these Republican governors have to wait on their congressional Republican colleagues to either defund the PPACA or hope one of their law suits finally wins over the Supreme Court.

    It's more obstructionism, plain and simple. Regardless, the law clearly states that if the states choose not to set-up an exchange, the fed would do it for them and charge them accordingly. At this point, those states that continue to refuse to adhere to the law have only themselves to blame and their residents can bitch to their Governor.
    What? Would you care to show us that portion of the PPACA law? This was the portion of PPACA that the SCOTUS struck down as unconstitutional by a 5-4 decision - it called for withholding the federal Medicaid for states that "opted out" of setting up their own exchanges.

    Medicaid Expansion, Regulations & Spending Clause
    As a part of the Medicaid Expansion of PPACA, States are compelled to follow new regulations or risk losing their current Medicaid funding. This part of the bill was also under the constitutional microscope. The result was a 5-4 overturning of this part of the bill. Here is the crux of the issue:

    Congress may use its spending power to create incentives for States to act in accordance with federal policies. But when “pressure turns into compulsion,” ibid., the legislation runs contrary to our system of federalism.

    More specifically, the decision came down to the accountability of our democratic system:

    …when the State has no choice, the Federal Government can achieve its objectives without accountability…

    “[W]here the Federal Government directs the States to regulate, it may be state officials who will bear the brunt of public disapproval, while the federal officials who devised the regulatory program may remain insulated from the electoral ramifications of their decision.” Id., at 169.

    Had non-compliance only risked loss of the medicaid expansion funding, it may have survived constitutionality in this regard:

    …Spending Clause programs do not pose this danger when a State has a legitimate choice whether to accept the federal conditions in exchange for federal funds.

    Implications:

    For practical purposes, the threat of losing current medicaid funding will not be permitted to induce compliance to the new regulations. The decision, also, sets a strict precedent limiting the power of the federal to govern the states.
    The above quote was taken from : PPACA Supreme Court Decision: Just the facts | Business Insurance
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sorry j, but I linked them. You confuse one thing with another. And the only people being dishonest are those whining about health reform. Factually, republican ideas are all through it.

    Listen Joe, The proposal that Heritage put forth in the '90s in response to Hillarycare, was a salvo to help undermine this sort of government take over....In fact Obama himself blasted Hillary in the '08 primaries when she tried to defend her plan as close to Romneycare in Ma. He said something to the effect that people in Ma. were being financially harmed, that it had not increased access, levied fines that people couldn't afford, and still left them uncovered. Then what did he do, well, like we see from the past two years, completely the opposite of what he said in that primary, and rammed through this monstrosity anyway, against the will of the people, in the dead of night. The senate republican's have this to say of this horrible plan.

    "During the debate over Obamacare, Democrats and the president claimed that the law would lower health care costs, create hundreds of thousands of jobs, protect Medicare, and allow Americans to keep their health care plans. Two years later, it's clear that not one of those promises will be kept. Instead, the health care law will drive up families' premiums by more than $2,000, force cash-strapped state governments to shoulder more than $100 billion in new Medicaid costs, take more than half a trillion dollars from Medicare, and encourage employers to drop health care coverage for up to 35 million Americans. And far from creating jobs, the health care law will actually result in 800,000 fewer jobs over the next decade. It's time to repeal Obamacare and replace it with commonsense, step-by-step reforms that will actually lower costs."

    Obamacare: Two Years Later, It's Making Things Worse - Our View - Republican.Senate.Gov

    So, you can say all you want about how it's this, or it's that, the bottom line is that it is going to break the bank, and Obama cynically knew that, which is why they passed it to pave the way for an even worse plan, and that is single payer. Libs/Progressives, and more importantly, Obama and crew, are just plain liars.

    And j, there is nothing silly about calling the whining what is. If you need more links, a fill this thread up with them. The facts are the facts.
    You've got a lot of nerve calling people complaining about the massive tax hike hidden within this putrid pile of dung, whiners, and speaking of "facts" when the fact of the matter is that when passing the bill Obama said it was not a tax, then the only way he could get it to stand was to call it a tax....Obama and libs are degenerate, compulsive, corrupt liars. Period.
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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Listen Joe, The proposal that Heritage put forth in the '90s in response to Hillarycare, was a salvo to help undermine this sort of government take over....In fact Obama himself blasted Hillary in the '08 primaries when she tried to defend her plan as close to Romneycare in Ma. He said something to the effect that people in Ma. were being financially harmed, that it had not increased access, levied fines that people couldn't afford, and still left them uncovered. Then what did he do, well, like we see from the past two years, completely the opposite of what he said in that primary, and rammed through this monstrosity anyway, against the will of the people, in the dead of night. The senate republican's have this to say of this horrible plan.

    "During the debate over Obamacare, Democrats and the president claimed that the law would lower health care costs, create hundreds of thousands of jobs, protect Medicare, and allow Americans to keep their health care plans. Two years later, it's clear that not one of those promises will be kept. Instead, the health care law will drive up families' premiums by more than $2,000, force cash-strapped state governments to shoulder more than $100 billion in new Medicaid costs, take more than half a trillion dollars from Medicare, and encourage employers to drop health care coverage for up to 35 million Americans. And far from creating jobs, the health care law will actually result in 800,000 fewer jobs over the next decade. It's time to repeal Obamacare and replace it with commonsense, step-by-step reforms that will actually lower costs."

    Obamacare: Two Years Later, It's Making Things Worse - Our View - Republican.Senate.Gov

    So, you can say all you want about how it's this, or it's that, the bottom line is that it is going to break the bank, and Obama cynically knew that, which is why they passed it to pave the way for an even worse plan, and that is single payer. Libs/Progressives, and more importantly, Obama and crew, are just plain liars.



    You've got a lot of nerve calling people complaining about the massive tax hike hidden within this putrid pile of dung, whiners, and speaking of "facts" when the fact of the matter is that when passing the bill Obama said it was not a tax, then the only way he could get it to stand was to call it a tax....Obama and libs are degenerate, compulsive, corrupt liars. Period.
    It doesn't matter how you try to explain it. it was their idea, born from their proposals. Supported by republicans. And not only that. but Romney put it into action, and stated clearly that he would keep it all but the method to pay for it. not recognizing this is making excuses. (loved a republican opinion piece as support btw).


    Also, to be hidden, we wouldn't know it was there. Yes, I have the nerve call whining what it is.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama Slaps States That Don't Comply With Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What? Would you care to show us that portion of the PPACA law? This was the portion of PPACA that the SCOTUS struck down as unconstitutional by a 5-4 decision - it called for withholding the federal Medicaid for states that "opted out" of setting up their own exchanges.
    I believe you're confusing the expansion of Medicaid with establishing the state-sponsored Health Insurance Exchanges. See PPACA (HR 3550), Part II, Section 1311 and Part III, Section 1321 for details.

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