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Thread: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

  1. #121
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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Even if the spending cuts are "theoretical", that is completely beside the point. Obama could offer a plan with absolutely zero cuts, and if the Republicans disagree with it then they should put forward their own proposal of how much to cut and from where they'd like to do so. Saying "NO" and throwing a temper tantrum is not negotiating. Obama put forward a proposal, and now it is time for the Republicans to reply with their own.
    Agreed.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Again, this whining is due to the oppositions spoiled hissy fit where they compromise on nothing and want everything including obama's resignation before they vote for anything. Sorry, but had the reps actually did something without being forced into a corner Obama would not have to force them into a corner. Don't worry, your guys will cave for the same reason they caved on the debt ceiling. It is their loss and they are holding their own wealth hostage. it is a stupid idea when you have made everyone either poor or rich to hold wealth hostage like that.

    The only thing this means is that next election people will still be pissed off with the spoiled child antics of the right wing and the right will continue to lose seats or run people who will actually compromise and want to help america.

    I have read through the details of Obama's proposal. The meat of it seems to be that he wants an additional 1.6 trillion in revenue over the next ten years and for that he has offered 400 billion in yet-to-be-determined cuts in medicare. In addition, he is also seeking an immediate 50 billion in "stimulus". So then, by my math that comes out to 1.6 trillion in new taxes in exchange for 400 billion in *potential* cuts which would then be offset by 50 billion in new spending? And to cap it all off he is also asking congress to cede to the White House it's authority to regulate the debt ceiling.

    Could you point me to the part where Obama is "compromising"?
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  3. #123
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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    His proposal offered ~$400 billion in spending cuts. The Republicans rejected this. If they want cuts and reject this plan, then they should specify how much they want cut and from where those cuts will come.

    And you're right, of course Obama is able to do this because he is in a very good position politically. But that really is neither here nor there. If you think that Republicans laying out what they want cut is "Obama getting what he wants" then you have already concluded that there shouldn't be any negotiation at all, that the Republicans should back out of any attempt at negotiating, and that we should all willingly go over the cliff.

    Of course, this, as I said earlier, would be political suicide for the Republicans, as they would expose themselves as throwing the country under the bus for their own petty squabbles.

    It is not political suicide. In case you did not notice, the GOP just retained the House so pleasing people who did not vote for them is not their main goal. These were not new cuts Obama proposes. He is trying to recycle the savings Obamacare is already supposed to bring (allegedly) into this. Obama is not in as good of a position as the WH thinks he is. Perhaps if Obama proposed a new cut that is not already in the works, then they will think he is sincere. I really have no problem going over the fiscal pothole if it comes to it, but the GOP offered him a deal to put this thing off to negotiate a comprehensive package and Obama said no. The only reason Obama would logically not agree to that is if he has no intent of giving the GOP anything.

  4. #124
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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    You are the only one arguing this. Can you find Boehner arguing it in the past two months? Good luck.
    Boehner referenced the House Budget on Fox News Sunday, December 2.

  5. #125
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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    With the Republican "counter offer" now out it is quite clear that they have no intention of clarifying anything. Their revenue from "closing loopholes" doesn't specify which loopholes would be closed and their proposed cuts simply don't add up. They're continuing to obfuscate.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    With the Republican "counter offer" now out it is quite clear that they have no intention of clarifying anything. Their revenue from "closing loopholes" doesn't specify which loopholes would be closed and their proposed cuts simply don't add up. They're continuing to obfuscate.
    Do you consider the Presidents offer including increased spending, and no guaranteed cuts, plus the abdication of congress to oversee the debt celling increases as serious?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Do you consider the Presidents offer including increased spending, and no guaranteed cuts, plus the abdication of congress to oversee the debt celling increases as serious?
    I would say that this question is tangential.

    The relevant fact, and one that you cannot get around, is that Obama, serious or not, offered up an actual proposal. The Republicans have not.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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