Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 127

Thread: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

  1. #111
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    When Obama exhibits a "my way, or the highway" attitude concerning this, then what is there to talk about?
    How is Obama doing this, though? He put forward a proposal that was shot down by Republicans, and is now waiting for Republicans to put an alternative on the table. He's literally asking them to come up with something; how is demanding the other side of a negotiation come up with an alternative on which to negotiate, refusing to negotiate?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    That is simply untrue. Whether you characterize the oppositions objections as whining, or some other pejorative that stems from an anger filled heart makes no difference to the fact the GOP came to the table already conceding that upper level incomes would be on the table, using last times $800 Billion hike. What Repubs are saying is that cuts have to be there as well.
    Okay, which cuts? Obama is not rejecting spending cuts, he is asking Republicans to lay out exactly what they want to cut. And they won't do that. Why do you think that is?

    The GOP really put themselves in a bad position. They put all their chips on Romney winning the election, with no alternative plan if Obama won a second term. Well, here we are with Obama getting a second term, and with Republicans whining about how they want cuts, but not specifying what they want to cut. All the while the clock ticks down, and we come closer every day to going over the cliff. Polls show that the vast majority of people would blame Republicans if that happens, so why are they balking? Because they're caught between a rock and a hard place: both choices - offering up specific spending cuts and going off the cliff - are political suicide to Republicans, so they're trying to stall until they can come up with, well, something? I don't see how anyone could stand behind such a position; if I was a Republican I'd be up in arms over this.

    Looks like 2014 is going to be a good year for Democrats.
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 12-03-12 at 01:31 PM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #112
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,550

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    How is Obama doing this, though? He put forward a proposal that was shot down by Republicans, and is now waiting for Republicans to put an alternative on the table. He's literally asking them to come up with something; how is demanding the other side of a negotiation come up with an alternative on which to negotiate, refusing to negotiate?



    Okay, which cuts? Obama is not rejecting spending cuts, he is asking Republicans to lay out exactly what they want to cut. And they won't do that. Why do you think that is?

    The GOP really put themselves in a bad position. They put all their chips on Romney winning the election, with no alternative plan if Obama won a second term. Well, here we are with Obama getting a second term, and with Republicans whining about how they want cuts, but not specifying what they want to cut. All the while the clock ticks down, and we come closer every day to going over the cliff. Polls show that the vast majority of people would blame Republicans if that happens, so why are they balking? Because they're caught between a rock and a hard place: both choices - offering up specific spending cuts and going off the cliff - are political suicide to Republicans, so they're trying to stall until they can come up with, well, something? Looks like 2014 is going to be a good year for Democrats.
    That is a clever "interpretation" but what do you call the House budget or the "Ryan plan"? These are not only "plans" but actually written as bills that simply need to get to the Senate floor after inserting the original $750-$800 in new tax revenue. Perhaps if the president, aka the demorat leader, would actually lead instead of simply coming up with half baked demands, then immediately changing them if they get accepted, things would proceed faster. Obama is playing a dangerous game, having tricked the republicants into shifting the "fiscal year" until after the November elections, instead of having dealt with these budget matters on time in August.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #113
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is a clever "interpretation" but what do you call the House budget or the "Ryan plan"? These are not only "plans" but actually written as bills that simply need to get to the Senate floor after inserting the original $750-$800 in new tax revenue. Perhaps if the president, aka the demorat leader, would actually lead instead of simply coming up with half baked demands, then immediately changing them if they get accepted, things would proceed faster. Obama is playing a dangerous game, having tricked the republicants into shifting the "fiscal year" until after the November elections, instead of having dealt with these budget matters on time in August.
    The House budget and Ryan plans are not being put forward as options by the Republicans, so I am not sure why you are referencing these dated pieces of legislation. You get some references every once in a while from a Republican about Bowles-Simpson, but this is not being put forward as an official negotiating proposal by the Republicans, either. So far Boehner has not offered any kind of plan; he just references the need for "spending cuts" without explaining what that means. And if he doesn't specify before we go over the cliff he's going to be the one the American people blame, not Obama. This is proven by polling.

    The Republicans don't want to put forward a proposal with specific spending cuts because, to be quite blunt, they don't even want to cut spending that much. They attack government spending in the abstract, but just a few months ago the Romney/Ryan campaign was attacking Obama for cutting Medicare spending. They don't want to specify specific spending cuts, but now they have to. They're in a lose-lose situation.

    Obama didn't trick the Republicans; both sides agreed on it knowing full well the consequences. The Republicans merely put all their chips on a Romney victory.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  4. #114
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,550

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The House budget and Ryan plans are not being put forward as options by the Republicans, so I am not sure why you are referencing these dated pieces of legislation. You get some references every once in a while from a Republican about Bowles-Simpson, but this is not being put forward as an official negotiating proposal by the Republicans, either. So far Boehner has not offered any kind of plan; he just references the need for "spending cuts" without explaining what that means. And if he doesn't specify before we go over the cliff he's going to be the one the American people blame, not Obama. This is proven by polling.

    The Republicans don't want to put forward a proposal with specific spending cuts because, to be quite blunt, they don't even want to cut spending that much. They attack government spending in the abstract, but just a few months ago the Romney/Ryan campaign was attacking Obama for cutting Medicare spending. They don't want to specify specific spending cuts, but now they have to. They're in a lose-lose situation.

    Obama didn't trick the Republicans; both sides agreed on it knowing full well the consequences. The Republicans merely put all their chips on a Romney victory.
    Are you kidding me? What more "put forward" can something be than a bill already passed by the House?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  5. #115
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Are you kidding me? What more "put forward" can something be than a bill already passed by the House?
    You are the only one arguing this. Can you find Boehner arguing it in the past two months? Good luck.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  6. #116
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    How is Obama doing this, though? He put forward a proposal that was shot down by Republicans, and is now waiting for Republicans to put an alternative on the table. He's literally asking them to come up with something; how is demanding the other side of a negotiation come up with an alternative on which to negotiate, refusing to negotiate?
    The GOP has put forth a proposal that includes "revenues"--their sacred cow; and Obam responded with one involving no meaningful cuts. The WH thinks because the polls say the GOP looks bad he can get what he wants. The GOP is used to looking bad in polls, so it isn't going to matter as much as he apparently thinks. We will be going over the fiscal pothole called a cliff if Obama does not come up with his cuts. It is that simple. It is 2 years to the mid-terms, the GOP has plenty of time to save face.

  7. #117
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    The GOP has put forth a proposal that includes "revenues"--their sacred cow; and Obam responded with one involving no meaningful cuts. The WH thinks because the polls say the GOP looks bad he can get what he wants. The GOP is used to looking bad in polls, so it isn't going to matter as much as he apparently thinks. We will be going over the fiscal pothole called a cliff if Obama does not come up with his cuts. It is that simple. It is 2 years to the mid-terms, the GOP has plenty of time to save face.
    His proposal offered ~$400 billion in spending cuts. The Republicans rejected this. If they want cuts and reject this plan, then they should specify how much they want cut and from where those cuts will come.

    And you're right, of course Obama is able to do this because he is in a very good position politically. But that really is neither here nor there. If you think that Republicans laying out what they want cut is "Obama getting what he wants" then you have already concluded that there shouldn't be any negotiation at all, that the Republicans should back out of any attempt at negotiating, and that we should all willingly go over the cliff.

    Of course, this, as I said earlier, would be political suicide for the Republicans, as they would expose themselves as throwing the country under the bus for their own petty squabbles.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #118
    Sage
    Hicup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Last Seen
    12-07-17 @ 03:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    7,846

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    One of my brothers is a factory worker who makes between $50-$60K a year. He said that several people he knew who worked there awhile had 401k's well over a million dollars because they put a lot into what were previously high risk high return funds that were investing in factories being built in China and other places in Asia 10-15 years ago. I'd say they are safe investments now. It is ironic, however, that the dems are targeting them under the auspice they got rich off the backs of poor American workers when they are the poor downtrodden workers supposedly being defended against the capitalist swarm.

    The progressives, (not unlike commies) can't come right out and tell you that its raining when they're pissing on your leg, silly. Democrats, and these include most young ladies, the new latino block, and of course the blacks, have routinly fell for this stuff, and I blame republicans in the house and states for not being able to articulate in laymans terms what and how progressives of the Alinsky type actually work. They don't nail you all at once, they take bites, and even nibbles, but they get the worm in the end. Sorry for all the cliches but it seems most don't or cannot comprehend a sinister government run by cloaked suspects unless it's put in neat little terms they can understand. With black people in the USA the technique is so well understood that to this day the blacks STILL think the democrats are in their corner..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #119
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:49 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,550

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    You are the only one arguing this. Can you find Boehner arguing it in the past two months? Good luck.
    OK, we both have no "new" specifics, as the $400 billion in net "Obama" cuts are theoretical as well.

    The bottom line is that Obama wants tax increases at 4:1 to spending cuts, a no go.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #120
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,879

    Re: ‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK, we both have no "new" specifics, as the $400 billion in net "Obama" cuts are theoretical as well.

    The bottom line is that Obama wants tax increases at 4:1 to spending cuts, a no go.
    Even if the spending cuts are "theoretical", that is completely beside the point. Obama could offer a plan with absolutely zero cuts, and if the Republicans disagree with it then they should put forward their own proposal of how much to cut and from where they'd like to do so. Saying "NO" and throwing a temper tantrum is not negotiating. Obama put forward a proposal, and now it is time for the Republicans to reply with their own.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

Page 12 of 13 FirstFirst ... 210111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •