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Thread: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Obviously women are not as big or strong or fast as men on average. You guys aren't providing any profound input when you tell us that. But when you put these qualities on a graph, it's a bell curve for men and women that overlap. That means there are some women who are stronger and faster than the average man. And some men who are weaker than the average woman. So what we need to do is set minimum requirements that EVERYONE needs to pass. A lot of men won't meet the standards, and fewer women will. But for anyone who can prove they are physically capable of performing the job, there is absolutely no reason to exclude them. Every other reason I've seen men post on here to exclude women are due to weaknesses of men. You think women will be raped? Guess what, that means we have a problem with the MEN in these units. You think men's morale will break when he sees a woman injured? Again, an issue the men will have to get over. Really guys, if you wanted to join a group and fight for your country and it was something you were capable of doing, would you really accept that you weren't being let in because the existing members would be uncomfortable with it?
    Last edited by kerussll; 12-03-12 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    On average yes, so on the surface you can make the females have to do the same as the males.

    The underlying problem is what I posted earlier and that is psycological problems that can happen with females in combat arms units such as situations being captured.
    No one should be denied a job because the people around them will worry about them too much. That is really their problem. It is entirely different if the person is physically unable to do the work.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    No one should be denied a job because the people around them will worry about them too much. That is really their problem. It is entirely different if the person is physically unable to do the work.
    Let's be honest, this isn't a Burger King hamburger flipping job either. This could potentially put national securty and people's lives at risk.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Let's be honest, this isn't a Burger King hamburger flipping job either. This could potentially put national securty and people's lives at risk.
    I don't really believe soldiers are likely to behave this way though. Perhaps one or two but not enough where it would bother me.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Donahue View Post
    I don't really believe soldiers are likely to behave this way though. Perhaps one or two but not enough where it would bother me.
    A break down in discipline, even by one, or two soldiers, is enough to get people killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
    Obviously women are not as big or strong or fast as men on average. You guys aren't providing any profound input when you tell us that. But when you put these qualities on a graph, it's a bell curve for men and women that overlap. That means there are some women who are stronger and faster than the average man. And some men who are weaker than the average woman. So what we need to do is set minimum requirements that EVERYONE needs to pass. A lot of men won't meet the standards, and fewer women will. But for anyone who can prove they are physically capable of performing the job, there is absolutely no reason to exclude them. Every other reason I've seen men post on here to exclude women are due to weaknesses of men. You think women will be raped? Guess what, that means we have a problem with the MEN in these units. You think men's morale will break when he sees a woman injured? Again, an issue the men will have to get over. Really guys, if you wanted to join a group and fight for your country and it was something you were capable of doing, would you really accept that you weren't being let in because the existing members would be uncomfortable with it?
    The curve is extremely small - not to mention those men too physically weak will fail boot camp anyways or will fail the physical...

    I suppose my point is that physically fit men will always be stronger and faster than physically fit woman.

    The truth is that woman are just not physiologically built to do difficult physical tasks that are routine for men. This is why woman cant compete with men in sports at the professional level (or generally most levels).

    IMO, putting a woman in a combat zone as an infantry specialist would be about as smart as allowing a woman to play in the NFL or NHL... They wouldn't be able to keep up...

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The curve is extremely small - not to mention those men too physically weak will fail boot camp anyways or will fail the physical...

    I suppose my point is that physically fit men will always be stronger and faster than physically fit woman.

    The truth is that woman are just not physiologically built to do difficult physical tasks that are routine for men. This is why woman cant compete with men in sports at the professional level (or generally most levels).

    IMO, putting a woman in a combat zone as an infantry specialist would be about as smart as allowing a woman to play in the NFL or NHL... They wouldn't be able to keep up...
    If you read my post I said only women able to meet the same requirements as men should be allowed to join. I don't really see your point.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by kerussll View Post
    If you read my post I said only women able to meet the same requirements as men should be allowed to join. I don't really see your point.
    My point is that any woman who can potentially meet the physical standards that are required of men for infantry should be in the Olympics not the armed services.

    My point is that the "curve" you talk about is extremely small. A physically fit male will always be stronger than their female peers.

    I agree with you tho - if they can somehow manage to physically keep up with the men, I wouldn't have a problem if they wanted to fight... I'm just saying the likelyhood of a female meeting the required criteria to fight with men is extremely low.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Has anyone brought up the mental stress of women in combat? The only reason I ask is when I was in the Army, I always heard about the Army doing tests to see what integrating women into front line units would do to the men of that unit if she was wounded or captured. I have not seen the reports myself, so this is hear say.

    Is our society to chivalrous that our soldiers would make bad decisions in a combat situation that would lead to more deaths? For instance, a ambush happens and a woman gets hit. As the soldiers reach cover, the woman is not brought to safety as well. She can't move herself due to the injury, and going to retrieve her would result in another KIA/WIA. Typically, soldiers would realize this and not make the rescue until the situation was safer. But for a wounded woman on the battlefield...would that override their better judgment and result in more KIA/WIA?
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Aclu sues over policy barring women from combat

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ACLU sues over policy barring women from combat - chicagotribune.com


    The American Civil Liberties Union and four servicewomen sued the U.S. Defense Department on Tuesday to end a ban on women in combat, calling the military the last bastion of discrimination by the federal government and saying modern warfare has already put women in the line of fire.

    modern warfare doesn't have the clear boundaries that may have once existed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out
    That's all we need is to fear for women in battle and the results of what would happen when they're "taken" by the enemy. And the sexual repercussions of having a babe in the battalion.

    Most battles today are waged against 7th century troglodytes. Like they care about the Geneva Conventions. They've got their own Allah Conventions.

    If we ever have to re-institute a draft, does that mean women will be called up to serve too? If they want these babes on the front line and it's discriminatory not to have them there, then a draft that doesn't include women is also discriminatory.
    The Clintons are what happens...
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