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Education

Spriggs05

Spriggs05

Anarcho Facist
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BBC News - UK education sixth in global ranking

EDUCATION TOP 20
Finland
South Korea
Hong Kong
Japan
Singapore
UK
Netherlands
New Zealand
Switzerland
Canada
Ireland
Denmark
Australia
Poland
Germany
Belgium
USA
Hungary
Slovakia
Russia
 
Darn. I was hoping the USA would fall entirely out of the Top 20. We're going to have to work on that.
 
And this is news worthy, why?
 
How embarrassing for the United States.

Can't wait to hear from all those people (read: conservatives) who think we shouldn't pay attention to the rest of the world and have nothing to learn from them or model ourselves after.
 
A top challenge in USA seems to be math and physics. When compared internationally USA falls behind there.
 
Juiposa said:
And this is news worthy, why?
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Says there that higher education is related to higher economic development. Assuming the reverse would also apply. should be news worthy and concerning.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
How embarrassing for the United States.

Can't wait to hear from all those people (read: conservatives) who think we shouldn't pay attention to the rest of the world and have nothing to learn from them or model ourselves after.
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Our problem is that we seriously OVER-educate the vast majority of our students here in the United States; both in the type of education they get and in the amount of it they get.
 
DDD said:
A top challenge in USA seems to be math and physics. When compared internationally USA falls behind there.
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Mostly because we are asking people who will never use that information to try and learn it. Why are we doing that? It's ridiculous.
 
DDD said:
Says there that higher education is related to higher economic development. Assuming the reverse would also apply. should be news worthy and concerning.
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Indeed, but that is common knowledge. Why this annual ranking is news worth is my concern.
 
Tigger said:
Our problem is that we seriously OVER-educate the vast majority of our students here in the United States; both in the type of education they get and in the amount of it they get.
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Not true at all. Wealthy students tend to be properly educated. Many middle class students are properly educated. Most poor students are under-educated - it's that demographic that tends to bring the standing of the U.S. in education down.
 
Spriggs05 said:
BBC News - UK education sixth in global ranking

EDUCATION TOP 20
Finland . . .
Click to expand...

What makes Finland so hot?

Finland's stellar performance has drawn the attention of education and government officials around the world. These experts have uncovered many attributes of the Finnish educational system that are distinctive and contribute to the success of Finnish students. Some of these features are:

• The Finnish school system uses the same curriculum for all students (which may be one reason why Finnish scores varied so little from school to school).
• Students have light homework loads.
• Finnish schools do not have classes for gifted students.
• Finland uses very little standardized testing.
• Children do not start school until age 7.
• Finland has a comprehensive preschool program that emphasizes "self-reflection" and socializing, not academics.
• Grades are not given until high school, and even then, class rankings are not compiled.
• Teachers must have master's degrees.
• Becoming a teacher in Finland is highly competitive. Just 10% of Finnish college graduates are accepted into the teacher training program; as a result, teaching is a high-status profession. (Teacher salaries are similar to teacher salaries in the U.S., however.)
• Students are separated into academic and vocational tracks during the last three years of high school. About 50% go into each track.
• Diagnostic testing of students is used early and frequently. If a student is in need of extra help, intensive intervention is provided.
• Groups of teachers visit each others' classes to observe their colleagues at work. Teachers also get one afternoon per week for professional development.
• School funding is higher for the middle school years, the years when children are most in danger of dropping out.
• College is free in Finland.
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How do United States students compare to students in other countries?

Now, if we analyze their welfare programs and figure out why they don't have slums, we might really learn something.

And if we analyze their tax code, we can see where they get the money.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Not true at all. Wealthy students tend to be properly educated. Many middle class students are properly educated. Most poor students are under-educated - it's that demographic that tends to bring the standing of the U.S. in education down.
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Does this rank of education per wealth also applies in higher education?
 
Tigger said:
Our problem is that we seriously OVER-educate the vast majority of our students here in the United States; both in the type of education they get and in the amount of it they get.
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yes
that is our nation's problem
we over-educate our citizens
sarcasm art form.jpg
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Not true at all. Wealthy students tend to be properly educated. Many middle class students are properly educated. Most poor students are under-educated - it's that demographic that tends to bring the standing of the U.S. in education down.
Click to expand...

The wealthy in this nation are SIGNIFICANTLY over-educated. That's not much of an issue because they can pay for that additional education AND it is not keeping them from maintaining basic skills.

The middle class are the most likely to be properly educated, though in many cases their educational costs are more than they should be.

The poor students are generally the most over-educated, primarily because they are given these additional opportunities for education while many of them should be doing remedial work in basic skills.
 
Tigger said:
Our problem is that we seriously OVER-educate the vast majority of our students here in the United States; both in the type of education they get and in the amount of it they get.
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I never heard someone complain because someone knew too much. I wish more had that problem. :coffeepap
 
Boo Radley said:
I never heard someone complain because someone knew too much. I wish more had that problem. :coffeepap
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From Finland's model:

Students are separated into academic and vocational tracks during the last three years of high school. About 50% go into each track.
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Trying to teach 50% of students that which is irrelevant to them rather than that which will help them succeed in life is part of our problem, in my opinion.
 
justabubba said:
yes. that is our nation's problem. we over-educate our citizens
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I'll give you a couple examples.....

My father taught Industrial Arts on the middle and high school levels. He had constant battles with his department head because he preferred to teach the students in his woodshop class to use the hand tools rather than the multi-thousand dollar drill presses, table saws, etc... His reasoning.... "These kids are not likely to ever have access to a table saw or drill press after they leave this class. On the other hand a handsaw and drill are things they may have access to and the opportunity/need to use in their lives." Yet, he was forced to take valuable class time to teach these students how to use a machine they'll likely never see again.

How many of the students who are trying to "comrehend" Romeo and Juliet can't even read the prose version of the story, nevermind the verse one because they were never required to actually be able to read the words, nevermind understand what they mean.

I work in an Engineering related field. I haven't found a single incidence in my 18 year professional career where I would have ever used Trigonometry or Calculus, yet we force many high school students who will never even go into a technical field to take at least one of those classes. Often when the basic algebra and geometry they've just taken isn't even properly comprehended.

We have students who can't perform basic elementary school tasks who are taking elective gym and art classes while still being unable to find the verb in a sentence or compute 62+47.
 
Boo Radley said:
I never heard someone complain because someone knew too much. I wish more had that problem. :coffeepap
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It's not that they know so much, as that they know the wrong things. They can hack the school department's website but they can't find the subject in a simple sentence or compute basic figures.
 
MaggieD said:
Trying to teach 50% of students that which is irrelevant to them rather than that which will help them succeed in life is part of our problem, in my opinion.
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But then students should be the ones to communicate which is irrelevant to them and which is relevant (that is why there are options in specialization). Teachers (nor anyone) can not know which education would make which student successful in their future life without knowing the students first.
 
Tigger said:
It's not that they know so much, as that they know the wrong things. They can hack the school department's website but they can't find the subject in a simple sentence or compute basic figures.
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so, they can problem solve but you are disappointed that they don't know rote
curious, what education level have you attained?
 
Tigger said:
I'll give you a couple examples.....

My father taught Industrial Arts on the middle and high school levels. He had constant battles with his department head because he preferred to teach the students in his woodshop class to use the hand tools rather than the multi-thousand dollar drill presses, table saws, etc... His reasoning.... "These kids are not likely to ever have access to a table saw or drill press after they leave this class. On the other hand a handsaw and drill are things they may have access to and the opportunity/need to use in their lives." Yet, he was forced to take valuable class time to teach these students how to use a machine they'll likely never see again.

How many of the students who are trying to "comrehend" Romeo and Juliet can't even read the prose version of the story, nevermind the verse one because they were never required to actually be able to read the words, nevermind understand what they mean.

I work in an Engineering related field. I haven't found a single incidence in my 18 year professional career where I would have ever used Trigonometry or Calculus, yet we force many high school students who will never even go into a technical field to take at least one of those classes. Often when the basic algebra and geometry they've just taken isn't even properly comprehended.

We have students who can't perform basic elementary school tasks who are taking elective gym and art classes while still being unable to find the verb in a sentence or compute 62+47.
Click to expand...

If one were to know on which areas would the student have access to in their future then perhaps the education system would arrange courses specifically for what they may need for their better future. But not only is it that the future is unknown and that courses on all directions are taught so as some may be used in their future, but even if it were known the student may not like that particular chosen future or may simply change their mind.
 
justabubba said:
so, they can problem solve but you are disappointed that they don't know rote. curious, what education level have you attained?
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You missed the point entirely. They are often capable of utilizing advanced abilities in very specific skill sets but often cannot show even rudimentary competency levels in basic skills like language, math, history, or basic science. More often than not they have almost no life-skills, morals and values, or common sense. Personally I believe these basic skills are much more important than the advanced, specific abilities.

It's great to be able to rebuild a car engine, but it's not terribly helpful when you can't write up the bill to give to the customer at the end of the day, or your language skills are so bad that you can't maintain any customer satisfaction.

I have an Associate of Science Degree in Computer Aided Design and Drafting (CADD) from Johnson & Wales University (class of 1994). Since then I have worked for a Structural Engineer, a Commercial Architect, and for the last dozen years at the third largest Gas & Electric Utility company in the United States.
 
DDD said:
If one were to know on which areas would the student have access to in their future then perhaps the education system would arrange courses specifically for what they may need for their better future. But not only is it that the future is unknown and that courses on all directions are taught so as some may be used in their future, but even if it were known the student may not like that particular chosen future or may simply change their mind.
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Which is why the BASIC, CORE knowledge needs to be the primary focus. Until those BASIC, CORE skills can be show repeatedly there should not be access to other things like art, music, gym, technology education, etc.....
 
MaggieD said:
From Finland's model:



Trying to teach 50% of students that which is irrelevant to them rather than that which will help them succeed in life is part of our problem, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Yes, we used to track here. It is also often a mistake. Many students here are too young to really know. Take what they see as the easy way. I was tracked as the weak mind strong back type. I'm actually strong both ways. ;)
 
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