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Thread: Education

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    But then you may risk "distracting" them from their main course again
    The moment they fall behind in the core classes, they get pulled out of the elective classes and placed in the necessary tutoring sessions or remedial classes to get them back up to speed in the core curriculums.

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    That is my question really, why not benefit from post 18th century political campaigns also?
    They would, as they are part of the basic timeline of history; and in a comparative sense the European and American models would have to be discussed.

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    Re: Education

    Our educational system is so low for a number of reasons. Political interference - The government wants to show the public they are doing something about education so they implement mandatory testing every six seconds. Instead, our educational system should be teaching practical applications and critical thinking in the ciriculum. The teachers have no time because of Federal and State mandates to try and engage the kids in any kind of purposeful activities which might spark their curiosity and interest.

    The other issue is parental involvement. I will bet that those countries that have higher ratings than us have for lack of a better term mandatory parental involvement. Its a basic principle that the more the parents and kids are involved in the educational process the better the child does.

    Another issue (using Germany as an example) is that from 5th grade on the kids are evaluated so that by the time they are ready for the equivelant of high school, the team (parents, kids, and teachers) know where the child is as far as capabilities go. This would require dual track educational pathways for high school kids. Instead of teaching non college bound kids college required courses (as is done here) they get courses (including vocational) which prepare them for the outside world and jobs.

    It would also be nice if the core ciriculum were standardized so that what is taught as a core in Cal is the same as in Fla

    Lastly, Teachers need to become educators again. There is a difference
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    That's not necissarily true. Also, you are referring to a unique case. In most cases, students are performing at or above where they should be. Why should these students be denied a broad education to prepare them for potential future careers? Specialized education occurs in College depending on the needs of the chosen career.
    No, they are NOT performing at or above their grade levels. If they were, we wouldn't have the number of incompetent and unskilled students getting high school diplomas every year. You cannot build a broad structure when the core founation is weak. The more you cantilever off of the main structure, the more that poorly designed foundation is taxed and eventually fails.

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    First off, how do you expect the student to learn algebra when he can't even do basic multiplication and division without a calculator. Secondly, by the middle school level you have a pretty good idea who your college-bound students are compared to those who will have their name on either the front or back of their shirts at work, and those who will likely never hold a legitimate job to begin with. By that point in time, you can (and most places do to some degree) start categorizing and focusing their education; so long as they have mastered the fundamentals in elementary school.
    I don't think either of your points is particularly accurate. In middle school, students are not fully matured. You cannot determine which are college-bound at that point nor can you determine which career path they'd enjoy or in which they'd excel. Also, the use of a calculator in basic mathematics is not a sign of poor math skills. Have you ever considered that the base education is higher now because the ceiling is also higher? Since mathematics and science are much more complex, and there is a greater body of knowledge out there, it is necessary to expand the basics.

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    That's not necissarily true. Also, you are referring to a unique case. In most cases, students are performing at or above where they should be. Why should these students be denied a broad education to prepare them for potential future careers? Specialized education occurs in College depending on the needs of the chosen career.

    Furthermore, I find the general disdain for education from the right to be disturbing.
    Maybe you should have more distain for our education system. Maybe you would if you actually "got it."

    Florida, 50% of high schoolers don't read at grade level:
    PolitiFact Florida | Half of Florida's high school grads can't read at grade level, says Bill Proctor

    Naperville, Illinois -- the highest achievement school district in Illinois -- 29% unprepared for college reading level.
    Chicago Public Schools By The Numbers | The Windy City YR

    Chicago Public Schools -- 79% of 8th grade students not proficient at reading.
    U.S. Department of Education: 79% of Chicago 8th Graders Not Proficient in Reading | CNS News

    I could go on listing links all day long.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No, they are NOT performing at or above their grade levels. If they were, we wouldn't have the number of incompetent and unskilled students getting high school diplomas every year. You cannot build a broad structure when the core founation is weak. The more you cantilever off of the main structure, the more that poorly designed foundation is taxed and eventually fails.
    Unfortunately, the performance of students is brought down by funding and lack of focus on education. How can our education system thrive when a large portion of the political ideology of our country celebrates ignorance?

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Maybe you should have more distain for our education system. Maybe you would if you actually "got it."

    Florida, 50% of high schoolers don't read at grade level:
    PolitiFact Florida | Half of Florida's high school grads can't read at grade level, says Bill Proctor

    Naperville, Illinois -- the highest achievement school district in Illinois -- 29% unprepared for college reading level.
    Chicago Public Schools By The Numbers | The Windy City YR

    Chicago Public Schools -- 79% of 8th grade students not proficient at reading.
    U.S. Department of Education: 79% of Chicago 8th Graders Not Proficient in Reading | CNS News

    I could go on listing links all day long.
    Go ahead and do it all day. I think you'd find the poorest performing schools are those which reside in city areas with poverty. Hard to expect good performance from school children when they have unstable home lives as both parents are working and they're still barely scraping by enough to pay for food or healthcare. Poverty = higher crime and lower education. What do the countries ahead of us have significantly in common? STRONG SOCIAL PROGRAMS including EDUCATION SPENDING.

    Honestly, it's comical that a political ideology attempts to pull away social spending and education spending, villanizes education as "elitist", and then complains about how poor our schools are.

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    Unfortunately, the performance of students is brought down by funding and lack of focus on education. How can our education system thrive when a large portion of the political ideology of our country celebrates ignorance?
    It's not education funding. The United States average is 20% higher than Finland. Education Matters: So, how DID Finland do it?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    They would, as they are part of the basic timeline of history; and in a comparative sense the European and American models would have to be discussed.
    You mean reciprocating so as European history courses cover USA ones? That is not necessary. Though I would like that and my point is not about covering each countries histories, my point is that World History as is taught to USA students from the USA perspective should cover more in depth the USA successes that it had here in their involvement with WW1, WW2, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosova, etc. These achievements are success stories that I think both Europe and USA may benefit from being retold in common USA based World History classes.

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    Re: Education

    Quote Originally Posted by JRog View Post
    I don't think either of your points is particularly accurate. In middle school, students are not fully matured. You cannot determine which are college-bound at that point nor can you determine which career path they'd enjoy or in which they'd excel. Also, the use of a calculator in basic mathematics is not a sign of poor math skills. Have you ever considered that the base education is higher now because the ceiling is also higher? Since mathematics and science are much more complex, and there is a greater body of knowledge out there, it is necessary to expand the basics.
    Are you telling me that at the 7th and 8th grade levels you didn't have a pretty good idea which of your classmates were college material and which were likely to be working the Slurpee machine at Seven-11?

    If you need a calculator to add 154+225, you've got a major problem. The ceiling has gone up but the floor still remains where it has always been. The problem is that instead of a ladder or stairs we put these kids on an escalator so they reach the top whether they're actually capable of getting there on their own or not.

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